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Author Topic: It's not for me sorry -  (Read 19806 times)

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pilot_ngb

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It's not for me sorry -
« on: December 09, 2008, 03:16:05 PM »
hello

I came from the 'other side' impressed with the 'everything in one package' option that AirNav was offering. The lack of network data was an issue for me. I could live with the add on software - not an inconvienance for me. But I wanted to look at the AirNav product as on paper it looked a good competitor.

But I am not convinced. I won't be buying. The screen shots just have not impressed me. There appears to be a distinct lack of aircraft on the scope compared to the other crowd.

I wish everyone good luck. I wish the other forum was so open about discussions. At the end of the day we all have the same interests.

Regards
pilot_ngb

tarbat

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2008, 03:31:27 PM »
There appears to be a distinct lack of aircraft on the scope compared to the other crowd.

Not sure I really understand this comment.  Are you saying that coverage provided by a Radarbox is less than the SBS-1?  That's certainly not my experience - when I switched from an SBS-1 to Radarbox, coverage improved slightly.

pilot_ngb

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2008, 03:36:37 PM »
I have an external aerial on SBS-1 and have excellent converage. I can post some screen shots put it's probably not allowed.

Based on what I have seen on the screen shot forum, there just appears to be less traffic visible - maybe people are filtering (??) flights but it's just my opinion based on what I have seen on the forum.

tarbat

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2008, 03:38:46 PM »
Here's one example from the Scottish Highlands - not the busiest of airspaces I admit - http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4774/airnavradarbox2007shotaro7.gif

I use an antenna in the loft!!

Coverage is as good, if not better, than an SBS-1.  Whether the new SBS-1e can now compete with the sensitivity of the Radarbox is still open to debate, but Kinetic obviously felt the need to improve the sensitivity of the SBS-1 to compete with Radarbox (my opinion).

And, of course, you've got all the network aircraft.  Here's a quick screenshot of London traffic - hows that for coverage from the Scottish Highlands!!!
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 03:44:56 PM by tarbat »

AirNav Development

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2008, 03:40:33 PM »
I believe you have that opinion simply because you haven't seen it working. Try to go to a dealer and ask for a Demo.

Below I copy/paste a post we sent a few days ago that could be interesting to you.

We do consider that RadarBox is an upgrade to our competition.
Most of our dealers and users think the same.

The reasons are well explained in the document below:
http://www.airnavsystems.com/download/anrb/AirNav%20RadarBox%20vs%20Competition.pdf

We maintain a constant contact with all the shops and that sell RadarBox. Also 90% of the users that buy the product from airnavsystems.com leave a comment on why they decided to buy RadarBox - because they had SBS-1 and that system got totally outdated. This is now widely known in this market.

Just to name a few differences:

- Support that really works: we have an average 8 hour response time on our support email and a forum that is growing at a rate 3x compared with our competition where daily interesting topics being discussed and happy users helping newbies - unlike our competition forum where posts mentioning RadarBox often get deleted. Also you will see here the programmers developers changing opinions with day-to-day users unlike Kientic crew that constantly hides from everyone.

- New versions/upgrades/implementation of customer suggestions: we have maintained a rate of an upgrade each 4 months. Kinetic/ML&S have the same - let me say it again - Spectrum like software (Basestation) for the last 3 years.

- Superior graphics with NASA overlays (BTW because of this SBS-1e has recently been advertised with screen shots of Google Earth that are not supplied in the product - we are still considering taking legal action on this if the situation is repeated);

- Network: SBS-1/ML&S spent 2 years lying to their customers about a feature that they were never be able to develop. We have it on our software.

- All in one package: no need to install 100 (some of them unreliable) addons to have the software performing as you want;

Regarding your mention to raw data/mode-s packets I don't think that is of  much interest to 99.9% of the users. For the others there are AirNav Systems Professional solutions: expect some great news from this area in the next months.

And most of all we don't lie to our customers (network feature, prices, deleting forum posts, not answering phone calls and emails, rarely having the development team talking with customers, etc).

We are here to have a better product and something that makes a real difference in this market. We will continue to work to add more features to the software and turn it into a more reliable one.

We do think this is a real upgrade and again, for a technical comparison please check:
http://www.airnavsystems.com/download/anrb/AirNav%20RadarBox%20vs%20Competition.pdf



AirNav Support

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2008, 04:19:35 PM »
pilot_ngb,

Customers who have moved over from SBS to RB have said they either get the same amount of traffic or slightly more with RB. They are also very impressed by the supplied antenna.

I don't think you make any judgement just by viewing screenshots from differents setups. As we can easily show you screenshots from the best setups e.g

http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=1726.0

You have may be under the illusion that as in RB the labels do not overlap and just the aircraft is displayed, this may make it look less busy (but also less confusing)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 04:22:29 PM by AirNav Support »
Contact Customer/Technical support via:
http://www.airnavsystems.com/contact.html
[email protected]

Allocator

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2008, 04:39:43 PM »
But I am not convinced. I won't be buying. The screen shots just have not impressed me. There appears to be a distinct lack of aircraft on the scope compared to the other crowd.

I'm sure that your intentions are honorable, but I did read your post as a "wind-up" from the "other side".  I apologise if I'm wrong, as I'm sure I am :-)

I've had an SBS-1 for over 2 and a half years and RadarBox for over 18 months.  The raw performance of the 2 side-by-side was pretty much the same, but 2 things really made it for me - the vastly superior Radarbox software that "works out of the box" without all the add-ons, and of course the RadarBox Network - the very thing that was promised with the SBS-1 and was the decider for me buying it.  The fact that the SBS-1 network function was never launched in spite of a number of promises is another story altogether.

You're missing out big time by not going for a Radarbox, but that's your decision.

I'd be really interested in seeing your SBS-1 screenshots here and I don't think that there would be any problem with that.  I ran my SBS-1 for the first time in ages the other day and I was amazed at just how basic the SBS-1 display is "out of the box"
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 04:41:19 PM by Allocator »

DaveReid

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2008, 04:57:05 PM »
But I am not convinced. I won't be buying. The screen shots just have not impressed me. There appears to be a distinct lack of aircraft on the scope compared to the other crowd.

Interesting. 

While in my experience the SBS and AirNav communities appear to disagree about pretty well everything else, the one area where there seems to be general agreement is that there is little or no difference between the ability of both boxes to pick up the same potential local traffic.

Based purely on chronology, it would be reasonable to expect that RadarBox, being a more recent product, is a tad more sensitive than the original SBS-1, and conversely the new SBS-1e may well have a slight edge over RadarBox, but I haven't seen any evidence to show that in either case the difference is more than a few percent at most.
This post has been scanned for any traces of negativity, bias, sarcasm and general anti-social behaviour

tarbat

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2008, 04:59:38 PM »
I'd agree with Dave.  Coverage is probably very similar between the SBS-1 and Radarbox.

Allocator, your post reminded me of just how basic the SBS-1 is.  I remember being so pleased when I finally got all the addons (Planeplotter, Populate, etc...) working, and posted this screenshot in the Kinetic forum.


Strangely, I never posted a screenshot of the basic SBS-1 interface (Basestation) - I wonder why?!!  Of course, now I can't see what I was so happy about back then!!
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 05:01:17 PM by tarbat »

Blackthorn

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2008, 06:58:54 PM »
As an ex SBS-1 user I find the Radarbox a much more useable and enjoyable product, the only change I made was to replace the supplied Airnav magmount with a more robust Kinetic magmount that also has a longer cable. Best of both worlds now :-)

Blackthorn

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 07:11:22 PM »
I forgot to mention the friendly and excellent help from other forum members.

If your not sure about something you just have to ask.

pilot_ngb

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 11:13:36 PM »
Hello

This is a great discussion - it is what is lacking on the other forum.

I will post some screen shots in the morning. I am having some issues getting them uploaded onto Photobucket.

It's not a wind up. I as generally interested in moving over. Some the images you have shown me today does show equal coverage.

My wish list - local traffic/other user coverage/aircraft photo's/alert tool. I am also using PP with my SBS. I am happy with my setup, but it does take 5mins to get all the programs running  :) My biggest gripe (with SBS) is lack of shared data and no software/firmware roadmap is visible to the end user

I know AirNav provides a one software solution - my question was on the coverage. You have started to show me some answers.

I will share a couple of screen shots tomorrow.

Allocator

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2008, 11:55:25 PM »
Well, you are very welcome to the forum and I'm sure the guys will give you all the information you need.  It's nice to be able to discuss the whole Mode S reception game without being jumped on by the moderators.

Here's a random live traffic only shot I happen to have on Flickr.  Home is Shrewsbury UK, so you can get some idea of coverage.  This is probably using the BS1100 external antenna.  The link to the full size screen shot is below the picture.



http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2099/2316557441_026e9233a4_o.jpg

Of course, this is what it's really all about, Network traffic :-)  The network tracks are marked with "*" after the callsign.



http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2018/2337244322_d0078d33ff_o.jpg

« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 11:57:17 PM by Allocator »

QF1

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2008, 12:00:35 AM »
You are right it is an interesting discussion.  I have just received my Radarbox yesterday and have had an SBS for about 3 years.  While the Radarbox will take some to get used to, my initial reaction is that both have advantages and disadvantages and I was aware of most of these when I made my purchase.

I don't think there is much noticeable difference in coverage.  I was keen to have the Radarbox' network, (even with the 5 minute delay), although Plane Plotter may provide an alternative as more users sign up).  I also like Radarbox' database and filters which will be very useful.  However, so far I would say that the SBS radar screen is more visually appealing and customisable.

These are only initital views and I need more experience with the Radarbox.  I am happy to be running both for now as they give me the "best of both worlds".  I am sure both companies will continue to develop their products, although AirNav would to be far more communicative with their clients/users, whcih defienitely gives them a sales advantage.

Cheers
M


Allocator

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Re: It's not for me sorry -
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2008, 12:03:53 AM »
And here are polar diagrams from my SBS-1 (top) and RadarBox (bottom).  These are taken on different dates, so they are fairly meaningless as a direct comparison, but it does give you a rough idea.  Traffic is deselected or filtered to see the polar diagrams easier.