Improved Routing Information

[Runway 31]

Many Thanks Chris for the instructions and the SQL statements.  Very much appreciated.

Alan

[flybhx]

Dave
Perhaps the system is confused with the original BA9 which was the flight involved in the Jakarta volcano incident :)

[tarbat]

In parallel running of Radarbox and FD7.5 for the last few hours, out of 201 FlightIDs, FD7.5 returned 15 additional routes, and 29 different routes:

   FN   FD7.NO   FD7.ND   FD7.CH      anrb.NO   anrb.ND   anrb.CH
  AAL51   EGKK   KDFW      20100930000000   EGLL   KDFW   20100929000000
AEU781P   EGKK   CYHZ      20100930000000         
 AIC127   EDDF   KORD      20100930000000   VOHS   EDDF   20100903083411
 AIC191   EDDF   KEWR      20100930000000   VAAH   KEWR   20100924000000
 AWE707   EDDM   KPHL      20100930000000   KPHL   KDCA   20100905121632
  CFEMT   CYYR   BIKF      20100930000000         
  COA17   EGPF   KEWR      20100930000000   EGPF   KLAX   20100905081531
  COA37   EGPH   KEWR      20100930000000   EGPH   KMCO   20100924000000
 DAL143   EDDF   KDTW      20100930000000   EDDF   KMSP   20100929000000
  DAL79   EDDT   KJFK      20100930000000   KJFK   KLAX   20100904110749
EZE1041   EGPD   EDDH      20100930000000   EIDL   EGPD   20100929000000
 EZE26Z   EGPD   EGNX      20100930000000         
EZY14PW   EGPD   EGGW      20100930000000         
EZY688Y   EGPF   LFPG      20100930000000         
EZY905G   EGPH   LSGG      20100930000000         
EZY94EG   EGPH   LEMD      20100930000000   EGPH   EGSS   20100831093407
 GMA651   EGLF   LFPB      20100930000000         
 IRL251   EIME   EINN      20100930000000         
 KLM663   EHAM   KIAH      20100930000000   KIAH   EHAM   20100904125343
MON7648   EGPH   GCRR      20100930000000   EGPD   LEPA   20100909145709
 N436QS   CYYT   LIBR      20100930000000         
 N604FJ   KBGR   EBAW      20100930000000         
 N8220M   CYYR   BGBW      20100930000000         
 NAO990   PHNL   PGUA      20100930000000   KDFW   KJFK   20100930112802
 NJE5HW   EGSH   LFPB      20100930000000         
 RYN532   EDDP   KLSF      20100930000000   KAEX   EDDP   20100930075633
 RYR2RC   EPGD   EIDW      20100930000000         
RYR69RF   EVRA   EIDW      20100930000000         
 TCX86K   EGCC   TBPB      20100930000000   EGKK   CYVR   20100909102411
   THT7   LFPG   KLAX      20100930000000   LFPG   NTAA   20100924000000
 UAL917   EDDF   KIAD      20100930000000   EDDF   KSEA   20100905120042
 UAL926   KSFO   EDDF      20100930000000   KLAX   EDDF   20100924000000
 UAL929   EGLL   KORD      20100930000000   EBBR   KORD   20100909072628
 UAL931   EGLL   KSFO      20100930000000   EGLL   KLAX   20100929000000
 UAL935   EGLL   KLAX      20100930000000   EGLL   PHNL   20100929000000
 UAL939   EGLL   KDEN      20100930000000   EGLL   KSAN   20100929000000
 UAL941   EDDF   KORD      20100930000000   EDDF   KDEN   20100929000000
 UAL943   LFPG   KORD      20100930000000   LFPG   KLAX   20100929000000
 UAL945   EDDF   KORD      20100930000000   EDDF   KLAX   20100905074528
 UAL947   EHAM   KIAD      20100930000000   EHAM   KLAX   20100831111554
 UAL953   EDDF   KIAD      20100930000000   EDDF   KPHX   20100905103943
 UAL955   EGLL   KSFO      20100930000000   EGLL   KSAN   20100929000000
WIF0393   EGPD   ENBR      20100930000000         
  WWI14   KTEB   EGGW      20100930000000   KSAT   KTCS   20100930071104

Using route lookup sites in the following order:
1. FRL Service
2. FlyteCom
3. FlightAware
4. FlightStats
5. Libhomeradar

[DaveReid]

Several of those United flights are multi-leg, so both routes quoted are technically correct except that one doesn't take the intermediate stop into account (e.g. UAL931 flies EGLL-KSFO-KLAX).

Bear in mind that FRL will only return the leg that is consistent with the aircraft's current position;  the AirNav server should return both legs (though it doesn't in this case).

[bratters]

In parallel running of Radarbox and FD7.5 for the last few hours, out of 201 FlightIDs, FD7.5 returned 15 additional routes, and 29 different routes:

   FN   FD7.NO   FD7.ND   FD7.CH      anrb.NO   anrb.ND   anrb.CH

EZE1041   EGPD   EDDH      20100930000000   EIDL   EGPD   20100929000000
 EZE26Z   EGPD   EGNX      20100930000000         
EZY14PW   EGPD   EGGW      20100930000000         
EZY688Y   EGPF   LFPG      20100930000000         
EZY905G   EGPH   LSGG      20100930000000         
EZY94EG   EGPH   LEMD      20100930000000   EGPH   EGSS   20100831093407
 
Using route lookup sites in the following order:
1. FRL Service
2. FlyteCom
3. FlightAware
4. FlightStats
5. Libhomeradar

These EZYs are all over the shop.  FD7 decodes 6/6 while Airnav decodes just 2 but both of these differ from FD7.

Confusion reigns as unless/until someone can categorically confirm the correct routes,  we just don't know who is right - if either of them!!!

[DaveReid]

Confusion reigns as unless/until someone can categorically confirm the correct routes,  we just don't know who is right - if either of them!!!

I'd love to help out. 

Unfortunately I've been told by AirNav not to post route updates :-)

[tarbat]

Confusion reigns as unless/until someone can categorically confirm the correct routes,  we just don't know who is right - if either of them!!!

Yes.  The more I look at routes, the harder it becomes to decide which lookup service is correct.  Now, what we really need is a system that looks at where the aircraft departs and lands, are derive routes from real-world events.  But of course, that's what I suggested to Airnav two years ago.  Let's hope they can refine their solution.

[RodBearden]

The fog and snow season is approaching - diversions will no doubt add to the merriment ;-)

Rod

[DaveReid]

The fog and snow season is approaching - diversions will no doubt add to the merriment

Yes, an injection of common sense is a useful addition to any automated process :-)

[bratters]

OK folks, here's my cunning plan to find at least some of the routes Airnav can't supply at present:

Nominate a "Routes" week

during which everyone will concentrate specifically on their local airport(s) traffic

and note the TO/ landing time & FN for each flight that does not show a route in MyFlights.

At the end of the period,  divide your records into incoming and outoing flight lists

and present the 2 sets of stats in alphabetic/numeric order  FN  Airport  Date  Time

by posting the results to a specially designated forum topic

where one or all of us can look at the data, stick it through a DBase and hopefully come up with some definitive results.

While it wouldn't correct the existing wrong routes, it would pobably fill a lot of the gaps.

Hairbrained it maybe but at least it's a start?

[spanman]

I'm up for that . I can help do Manchester traffic and of course I will keep the Flybe alpha numeric route information as up to date as possible.

[bratters]

Thanks for coming back spanman. There are many airports to cover of course even if we impose say a Europe Only limit for the first exercise.

It would mean a lot of of flights however if we concentrated on "non-routers" and "ADS-B" only, I think the numbers, while substantial, would be manageable.

The main point is that if all goes to plan we will at last have hard data to work on and hard data is what we currently lack.  If it is a vast quantity, well no worries -  there's plenty of time to sort it out.

Let's see if anyone else is interested - lots of airports to monitor.

[tarbat]

Interesting idea.  I just had a play with importing my FLIGHTS table into Excel, and then doing some formulae to look for flights where the Start or End Altitude is below a certain level (1200ft in my case).  Gave the following results:

                     STATUS   FLIGHTID   DATE/TIME
EGPE   8000   1140   LANDING   BDI18B   2010/09/30 08:57:09
EGPE   65   20000   TAKEOFF   CWL64   2010/09/30 09:12:44
EGPE   90   22000   TAKEOFF   CWL73   2010/09/30 09:17:39
EGPE   0   0   TAKEOFF   GLAZL   2010/09/30 10:16:47
EGPE   9500   685   LANDING   LOG78HL   2010/09/30 11:12:05
EGPE   37975   955   LANDING   EZY761   2010/09/30 13:14:14
EGPE   220   7500   TAKEOFF   BDI19B   2010/09/30 19:25:27
EGPE   9375   1070   LANDING   LOG51HP   2010/09/30 19:53:21
EGPE   1070   5350   TAKEOFF   LOG772P   2010/09/30 19:49:50

Its then fairly easy to eliminate those that went into Lossie or Kinloss, where I can see down to ground level.  I might develop this idea further tomorrow.  Any other suggestions for automating this?

[DaveReid]

Any other suggestions for automating this?

Er, how about an algorithm ?  :-)

Joking apart, you're on the right track (no pun intended).  If it's any help, the EGLLADSB website works by looking at position, altitude, track, groundspeed and rate of descent, in order to deduce that an aircraft is landing at or taking off from Heathrow.  It has also been enhanced recently to identify arrivals while they are still in the holds, but that's probably overkill.

Of course none of this should be necessary - if you're feeding traffic to the network, there's a server somewhere that has access to all this data already, and should already be doing what you have just described  ...

[Chris11]

Shees Dave - you don't miss an opportunity

tarbat - here is the full up to date route list for 1Time Airline - RNX. I would be grateful if you could do the sql.txt file again. Is is possible to add a sql instruction at the beginning of the file to delete all existing routes for that airline so that obsolete routes could be deleted?