PlanePlotter

[viking9]

Tarbat,

Can you see RCH353 which is near Lyneham?

Tom

[tarbat]

No, can't see that one.

But yes, if I pan to the south of England, I can see MLat'ed aircraft, but that's of no use to me up here in the far north.

[viking9]

No, can't see that one.

But yes, if I pan to the south of England, I can see MLat'ed aircraft, but that's of no use to me up here in the far north.

So the system is working then. Just no ac up your way that others are mlatting.

Tom

[tarbat]

So the system is working then. Just no ac up your way that others are mlatting.

Correct.  And now confirmed on the PP forum that only Ground Stations will ever be asked to perform a remote MLAT, so no point in ticking the "Allow Remote Mlat" box.  I thought it would have been useful to allow Master Users to perform remote MLATs to increase the number of auto-MLAT'ed aircraft, but it doesn't work like that.

[viking9]

I've just seen John's answer to you on the forum and I cannot understand it. For example, forgetting about mlat for a moment, when a PP user sizes their map to a certain area, PP will only download to his screen those aircraft that are within the area of the map - try it. We also know this is true because Bev has written in the past that having your map covering a very large area increases the load on the server as it has to download more aircraft to you.The same when that user selects an area and clicks on OGM. The server sends only that map area to his PC.  So where does raw data come in?

The server knows which sharers are logged on to PP and knows which area they are looking at. It therefore knows which aircraft are being seen in their area, because their SBS-1 or RB is sending that info. It does not have to be raw does it? Otherwise how would you be able to see what aircraft I'm seeing (denoted my share code in the User column).

Now, considering Remote Mlat. If the server knows which non-positional aircraft I'm seeing why can it not send an mlat request when it sees my PP idle for a while. I just cannot see the need for the Ground Station is except to supply the raw data required for the server to do the calculations and send the info to mine and other PCs focussed on that area.

Incidentally I have found the thread where it is mentioned that only other Master Users and Ground Stations can see shared Mlatted targets. I'm still looking for the reference to Master Users and Remote Mlat.

BTW, I've just looked at PP which has been idling whilst I've been doing other things and there are two targets, a C-5 and a C-17 where I'm shown as the user and they are mlatted. I didn't request it.

Tom

[tarbat]

Now, considering Remote Mlat. If the server knows which non-positional aircraft I'm seeing why can it not send an mlat request when it sees my PP idle for a while.

Exactly my point.  Instead of just a handful of Ground Stations performing automatic MLATs, we could have a whole network of 1000s of PP instances calculating MLATs.  I'm not sure Bev and John understand what I'm saying :(

Anyway, I've spent most of this morning CTRL-clicking on aircraft in my area, and not a single MLAT success :(   It certainly doesn't live up to my expectations.

[viking9]

Tarbat,

If you look at the top of the PP screen when you Ctrl-left click you should see a message advising why you cannot mlat that particular aircraft.

Tom

[tarbat]

If you look at the top of the PP screen when you Ctrl-left click you should see a message advising why you cannot mlat that particular aircraft.

In most cases I have to wait for the 65 seconds to process before it tells me MLAT can't get a fix.  No message at the top of the PP screen.  It gets very frustrating clicking on an aircraft, waiting 60 seconds, getting no useful result from MLAT, and then having to try another aircraft.  Not what I was expecting at all :(

Anyway, thanks for your help.

[viking9]

A quick question, have you ever managed to mlat an aircraft?

Tom

[DaveReid]

It may be stating the obvious (or possibly not), but if you can't see one or more ADS-B aircraft on your PP screen in locations where they are likely to be within range of 3 or more GS users (given that you know where they are), then attempting to MLat any positionless aircraft is likely to be a complete waste of time.

[tarbat]

A quick question, have you ever managed to mlat an aircraft?

Yes.  But not an aircraft I wanted to MLAT, just high-flying transatlantic jets.  I read a post by satcom on the other forum a while ago that MLAT works down to around 3000ft across the UK, but I can't seem to MLAT on anything below about FL200.

[viking9]

Yes.  But not an aircraft I wanted to MLAT, just high-flying transatlantic jets.  I read a post by satcom on the other forum a while ago that MLAT works down to around 3000ft across the UK, but I can't seem to MLAT on anything below about FL200.

Well that's a bit of a broad statement. The aircraft has to be within range of enough Ground Stations for mlat to work. If the ground stations cannot see the ac then it won't work.

Tom

[DaveReid]

Repeat after me:

line-of-sight
line-of-sight
line-of-sight... 

:-)

[Pinza]

Gosh - MLAT sounds very complex - not for me!

If I'd read this thread for the first time this evening, I'd have been put off even giving Planeplotter a fair trial!

Would just like to reassure any RB user thinking of trying PP - go for the free trial - it's not as complex as it sounds for basic functionality!

Simples really:

1) Download and install the software (helps if you have rough co-ords for your home location). Was impressed at the ability to fine tune your actual location during the installation process

2) Fire the program up (after starting ANRB) - nothing much will happen until you click on dropdown menu 'Process'! Just click on start...

3) A bit of Googling will find some charts and databases to get you started.

----------------------

Still playing with basic functions myself - but have just found the option that guarantees I will be be registering software soon:

Namely the 'OSM' button that I randomly clicked on - just to see what it did!

This downloaded a jpg map (centered on cursor - c/o OpenStreetMap)

Can save up to four maps in shortcuts (A,B.C and D) - more slots would be nice!

Now have best of both worlds - have ANRB running on 22" monitor (big enough for split screen between radar and MyFlights details AND PP running on 15.4" laptop plotting planes on a conventional road map.

So when planes route via VELAG into East Mids or via Honiley into BHX, I can now relate this into locations I can relate to to!

In summary, MLAT complications can wait - don't be put off - if you want to see your received (ADS-B) planes on a 'conventional' map (as I did!), this is worth a try!

Chris

[viking9]

Chris,

No one was trying to put anyone off. The thread was dealing with very real probs experienced by some people using mlat to track mode-S aircraft onscreen, nothing to do with straightforward PP.

Incidentally, even straight PP ain't as simple as you think. For example; DO NOT use A,B,C, or D for storing maps or graphs. They are for storing configurations. If you store a map there PP will change back to the configuration that was in force when you stored it. The correct place to store maps and graphs is Options/Chart/Define/Quickchart and Choose 1 to 10. When you click on a Quickchart icon it will only change the map stored there and nothing else.

See the Wiki at http://planeplotter.pbworks.com/Using+the+Save+and+Load+feature for a fuller explanation.

Tom