AirNav RadarBox 2007 - Patch 1 BETA Available for Download

[Allocator]

Hello HH,

If you lower the value for "lost signal flights", these planes should disappear according to the time specified.

FFM

The Beta I've been running (not the Beta here on the Forum) has separate "time-out" setting for network data.  This works very well, so I hope that it makes it to the new release version.

[FFM]

Hello Allocator,

Good to hear that things improve :)...
Hopefully Airnav will incorporate all the suggestions and input from the user community to make it a great product...

So we all hope that the new release will be much more stable and released soon...

FFM

[HH]

Hello HH,

If you lower the value for "lost signal flights", these planes should disappear according to the time specified.

FFM

Hello FFM,

I already set the value to 15 seconds. My problem are "re-appearing" flights that have already landed. Maybe some signal-reflections while the planes are taxiing. I'm not that far from the airpot so that may be a problem?

I'm also testing different antennae locations. Maybe the problems disappear with the best antenna location.

Does anyone have experience with the 1090 Mhz antenna offered at Wimo.de?

Markus

[flightchecker]

@ Markus

By the way: where should the A/Cs get their position w/o getting it from GPS?
For example: An approaching aircraft should be on the final (it better should ;) ) but its somewhere in the vicinity of the final (sometimes miles away). Eventually it gets back to its real position.

Hi Markus,

Some aircraft, and there's still quite a lot of them, have fed INS instead of GPS data to their transponders. INS suffers "drift", which increases with time as the aircraft is airborne. INS realigning is usually done, when the aircraft is back to a stand. 
Also, ADS-B, as received by RadarBox and SBS-1, is not yet used by airlines and airtraffic control, as there is no official approvement yet from the authorities involved, which is probably a few years away.
If an aircraft appears to "jump" on its final, RadarBox is probably loosing and regaining contact. Remember "line of sight rules" concerning signals that travel at frequencies around 1 GHz.

Final approaches use to rely on ILS related, if not a "Visual"

Have a look at Virtual-Radar.de as "FFM" does, and BTW: we are "open" for both, RadarBox and SBS-1 users.

"HH" might be somewhwere in the northern part of Germany, is it?

Regards,

Karl

[b744]

An INS/FMC is updated by radio updates, VOR radials, DME and LOC signals. Yes they suffer drift over time but when near a European airport, with the number of dme-dme updates available and then finally the most accurate-the LOC-DME update the drift should be minimised as the FMC position is a mix of the INS and radio updated info.
The most noticable shift is after flight over areas with no radio beacons ie North Atlantic or Africa for those a/c seen in Europe.
Rgds

[flightchecker]

An INS/FMC is updated by radio updates, VOR radials, DME and LOC signals. Yes they suffer drift over time but when near a European airport, with the number of dme-dme updates available and then finally the most accurate-the LOC-DME update the drift should be minimised as the FMC position is a mix of the INS and radio updated info.
The most noticable shift is after flight over areas with no radio beacons ie North Atlantic or Africa for those a/c seen in Europe.
Rgds

Wish, I had you sitting by my side, looking at my "Virtual Radar" then monitoring some "well known companie's" "well known aircraft types" that just departed about three quarters of an hour or so before, no Atlantic crossings, not suffering "update aids", approaching the local airport's ILS. Then compare to those, that rely on GPS.
If still in doubt, check an alternative forum, and chat about with some "experts".

Regards

Karl

[flightchecker]

Does anyone have experience with the 1090 Mhz antenna offered at Wimo.de?

I have.
Using it since the beginning of this year, good choice and very happy with it.

Karl

[b744]

No doubt as I've seen what you refer to. All I've stated are how the position data is derived and would love to speak to your "experts". I use INS/GPS every time I go to work so have seen it from the pointy end !

[HH]

Does anyone have experience with the 1090 Mhz antenna offered at Wimo.de?

I have.
Using it since the beginning of this year, good choice and very happy with it.

Karl

Hello Karl,

do you use it indoor or on an aerial mast?

Markus

[HH]

Hi Markus,

Some aircraft, and there's still quite a lot of them, have fed INS instead of GPS data to their transponders. INS suffers "drift", which increases with time as the aircraft is airborne. INS realigning is usually done, when the aircraft is back to a stand. 
Also, ADS-B, as received by RadarBox and SBS-1, is not yet used by airlines and airtraffic control, as there is no official approvement yet from the authorities involved, which is probably a few years away.
If an aircraft appears to "jump" on its final, RadarBox is probably loosing and regaining contact. Remember "line of sight rules" concerning signals that travel at frequencies around 1 GHz.

Final approaches use to rely on ILS related, if not a "Visual"

Have a look at Virtual-Radar.de as "FFM" does, and BTW: we are "open" for both, RadarBox and SBS-1 users.

"HH" might be somewhwere in the northern part of Germany, is it?

Regards,

Karl

Hello Karl,

thx for more insight. I'm only flying the little ones with their "Uhrenladen" and sometimes some w/ glass cockpit (which feels like flying a big one by the way ;) ) but I haven't heard of "INS". Maybe you could give me the unabbreviated meaning, so I can google some.

The jumping A/Cs stem indeed from weak/lost/bad signals as far as I can see now after altering antennae locations. I'm considering moving the antenna outside on an aerial mast, but will do some more tests.

I'm already reading "virtual.radar.de" and mentioned it to AirNav as source of information for buying the RB (after reading the discussions on your board). And "HH" is indeed in the North ;)

Have a nice day,

Markus

[flightchecker]

@ Markus

do you use it indoor or on an aerial mast?

Outdoors is a MUST, Markus, and if you can afford, give it a place "as high as possible", most hopefully not have it "looking" into obstacles in your vicinity, that attenuate
the incoming signals, and migt also be reponsible for "Multipath reception" too.
Take care to use a "low loss" coaxial cable and its appropriate connectors. ("Ecoflex 10" beeing a very good choice) If it is more then about 10 meters of cable to connect between the antenna and your RadarBox, a "mast preamplifier" is recommended to compensate for signal losses, even if using high quality cable as mentioned before. ("WIMO" does have both, cable as well as the preamp)

INS stands for Inertial Navigation System, "Trägheitsnavigations- system" as we are saying. INS uses accelerometers that are sensing 3 axis acceleration, integrating it twice to get "positition" in the axis as mentioned before, and mechanical Gyros ("Laser gyros in the more modern systems) to establish a platform with respect to the earth's surface, the accelerometers attached to the platform)

We might "e-mail" if you wish, and I could send a screenshot to your attention, which is not appreciated by AirNav means, (which I can fully understand as I "unfortunatly" am an SBS-1 instead of RadarBox user.


Karl

PS: Like the "UHERNLADEN", never heard before. Have spend a lot of hours on the B737-300/500
"jumpseats". The 737s representing a mix of "Uhrenladen" and "Glass-cockpit"

K.

[Brisbane]

Getting back to the thread of this discussion group, where is the promised patch that was due Monday-Wednesday of this week. We have put up patiently with waiting for this for  2 months now, still no sign of us being able to enjoy our near £500 worth of equipment. Whilst I appreciate this was unforseen, I do feel that this has gone on for much longer than any of us would have liked. I purchased this because of the superior graphics over the SBS-1 box, now can we have something that actually works!

[Roadrunner]

Getting back to the thread of this discussion group, where is the promised patch that was due Monday-Wednesday of this week. We have put up patiently with waiting for this for  2 months now, still no sign of us being able to enjoy our near £500 worth of equipment. Whilst I appreciate this was unforseen, I do feel that this has gone on for much longer than any of us would have liked. I purchased this because of the superior graphics over the SBS-1 box, now can we have something that actually works!

Hi mate - look at the next thread in this section of the forum. You will see that it has been delayed indeffinately......

[AirNav Support]

Hi All,

Once again I apologise for the delay.

We need to be 100% certain that there are no show stoppers in the next release otherwise we will be disappointing you again. Hence that's why we are making sure any serious issues are fully rectified and tested.

I hope to have some further news very soon.

[DaveG]

If photo's are the problem, can we not have an option to turn off auto photo download and also an option on each record to download photo for that record only at a push of a button.