Loganair/Flybe Route info and Flight ID

[smcm]

Loganair/Flybe have again changed their Flight ID's / callsigns and since this change I am no longer picking up Route info for any of the Saab 340 aircraft operating out of Kirkwall or Sumburgh.

Anyone else noticed this - probably only of interest to Orkney and Tarbat.

Also, how do Flybe allocate Flight ID's / callsigns ?  When it was Loganair/BA the callsign was simply the last three digits of the flight no - so BA8918 was Logan 918.  Now we have Flight ID/callsigns with two digits and two letters.

The only logic I can see is that generally the digits and letters increment by one ie

Glasgow-Kirkwall  Logan 51KF
Kirkwall -Glasgow Logan 52LG

[orkney]

Hello

We too have noticed  this lack of routings on the Loganair recently also.  It is a nuisance but I dont know of anything that could be done to cure it since there appears to be no connection between the BEE flights and the LOG flights that they actually transpond.

Andrew

[tarbat]

Yep, same here.  And even DaveReid's flight lookup service doesn't seem to recognise Flybe/Loganair flight IDs :(

[Aerotower]

I have noticed this also in easyJet, thomsonfly, etc...

[smcm]

The lack of Route info has only happened recently and I am still picking up the Flight ID's.

Do the flight crew input Flight ID's and Route info - or how does it work ?

[orkney]

Hello

The pilot puts in his flight number and it is transmitted on the transponder. Our box then picks it up. Once our box software  has that flight number it checks the database of routes that we have for a route corresponding with that number. There is no ability for the pilot to transmit his routing so it is different from AIS on ships where they input their destination manually.

Andrew

[smcm]

Thanks, Andrew

I'm just wondering when you say flight number is that the BE number or the Flight ID/callsign which we see transmitted ?

What makes it more confusing is that if you look at the HIAL website for Kirkwall airport you get a Flybe and a British Airways flight number for each Loganair/Flybe flight.

eg the 15.50h Kirkwall to Edinburgh is both BE6898 and BA4198

[orkney]

Hello

By flight number I mean the LOG one or whatever a plane actually transmits. I have periodically seen a Loganair transmitting L (zero) G instead of the standard LOG.  Unless a pilot accidently does it they shouldn't be transmitting BA or BE codes unless it is one of the real Flybes or British Airways.

Andrew

[smcm]

I can't understand why when Flybe took over from BA they started using this more complicated system of Flight ID's.

If you are listening on vhf airband as well as using Radarbox it's not easy to relate the Flight ID/callsign to the BE flight number - whereas before it was simple.

And why change the Flight ID's every so often as well - especially when the BE flight numbers generally don't change ?

[DaveReid]

I can't understand why when Flybe took over from BA they started using this more complicated system of Flight ID's.

If you are listening on vhf airband as well as using Radarbox it's not easy to relate the Flight ID/callsign to the BE flight number - whereas before it was simple.

It's not being done for your convenience.

The issue of "callsign confusion" (two aircraft in the same bit of airspace at the same time with similar Flight IDs that could be mistaken for one another) is being taken very seriously.

ATC couldn't care less that the passengers on board the flight using "BMA3EV" as a callsign actually have "BD121" on their tickets, if it reduces the possibility of one crew following ATC instructions intended for another aircraft.

Anything that lessens the risk of two aircraft being in the same place at the same time is fine by me.

[orkney]

Hello

I think we all know that things in aviation are not done for our convenience otherwise the use of ADS-B would be mandatory  :)

What I cant understand regardless of the reasons for using different flights is why our old LOG flights had routings but nobody seems to know the routings of the new ones.

Andrew

[tarbat]

It's ironic that the reason we got Airnav to implement decoding of Flight ID on non-ADS/B aircraft in the first place was because of Loganair flights!!
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=1372

DaveReid, any chance you can get Loganair flight IDs into your Route Lookup service?

[smcm]

It gets even more confusing.

I've just heard/seen the Loganair/Flybe Saab 340 from Sumburgh to Kirkwall using callsign/Flight ID - LOG92MU.  I would have expected it to change its callsign/Flight ID to LOG93NV for the next leg of the flight.

It's just taken off from Kirkwall to Inverness still using callsign/Flight ID LOG92MU !

[DaveReid]

It gets even more confusing.

I've just heard/seen the Loganair/Flybe Saab 340 from Sumburgh to Kirkwall using callsign/Flight ID - LOG92MU.  I would have expected it to change its callsign/Flight ID to LOG93NV for the next leg of the flight.

It's just taken off from Kirkwall to Inverness still using callsign/Flight ID LOG92MU !

Isn't that a 2-leg flight: Sumburgh-Kirkwall-Inverness ?  If so, then I would expect the same callsign to be used on both legs.

[DaveReid]

DaveReid, any chance you can get Loganair flight IDs into your Route Lookup service?

I'll see what I can do, but I'd be fibbing if I said it was a high priority :-)