Development Update

[jetset]

You know what. I find these posts demanding an update insulting, rude and offensive.
I don't remember signing a contract saying that I would get an software update at a given time when I bought my radarbox.   
I doubt you lot did either. Enjoy what you have. Airnav owe us nothing.

[knight01]

jetset, let me refresh your memory.  See here http://www.airnavsystems.com/Radarbox/whybuyradarbox.html

I have highlighted one feature from the list in the picture.
*Continuous Software Updates*

The last time a major software update (v3.13) was released was back in 2009.  v4.03 doesn't count, as it's just v3.13 with added 3D.

When you buy any product, the consumer weighs up pros and cons and many of us probably looked at this list to make a final decision.

Some parts of this list can be considered as false advertising and misleading.  And in some aspects can be considered defamatory as Airnav could be making false statements that could harm the reputation of the other business.  I'm not a lawyer, it's just the way I see it.

[dotspotter2003]

I got my radarbox in 2009.I then upgraded to v3.13,not long after.Since SBS came out I think around the same time as radarbox.SBS has had at a rough guess four updated versions,I thought all the blurb said that radarbox is the biggest by number sold on the market.I might be wrong.Off of soap box heading for a dark corner to bang ones head on,and a padded cell awaits.

[jetset]

OK, so they advertise continuous software updates. That is miss leading I admit but it doesn't detract from the fact that these posts are becoming a little vitriolic (is that a word?) 

[Judwin45]

Perhaps we could have a new thread for complaints and the such like and leave this one for any genuine development update comments. Then I would not have to read about all those folk who are unhappy.

As for me I am still enjoying RadarBox as a great addition to my hobby.

[lambertw]

You got to agree that some of us do feel let down by Airnav, after paying a substantial amount of money for there product and listening to what they themselves said they are going to do,it all is very very disappointing to put it politely,if only they themselves would be more truly truthful with us all. 

[Marpleman]

Jetset, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

What's offensive?

If you're happy with the product as it is out of the box, full of bugs, with a four year old database with only approx 80k records on it, then I don't understand why you need to read this thread?

We've been promised countless times that new releases are just around the corner, we've seen long standing volunteers basically ignored and cast adrift...............I don't need to go on any further as all you have to do is read these pages.

If this thread was reserved for nothing but development updates, it would disappear into history, as there would simply be nothing to report.

The only reason it keeps rising to the surface is because the long standing customer base, not to mention those who gave up considerable time testing/fixing etc to AirNavs advantage, feel let down beyond belief.
Let's face it ,AirNav would love to see this thread disappear, as they would no longer be under any pressure.

The forum in its current guise is little more than a means of feeding the Database team, and asking other users for help with the software, as all can see, plus the odd report of unusual "sightings", little else.

If people want to use a different thread to complain, tough! The forum members have every right to use the threads however they see fit, if it remains in line with the thread title, just as much as people have the right to moan about those complaining.

[bratters]

Quote Jetset.......   

"OK, so they advertise continuous software updates. That is miss leading I admit but it doesn't detract from the fact that these posts are becoming a little vitriolic (is that a word?) "

Misleading? (I assume that's what you meant) That's a very polite way of putting things.

In the fast changing world of aviation, the ability to update is not a luxury, it's an essential.  Without updates the box would be obsolete overnight. That should be obvious to anyone though apparently you can't see it.

RB has been kept in business only because of the efforts (understatement!!) of a handful of owner/amateurs who have undertaken the task of keeping things up to date. Over the years there have been some very strong words on here as to who is responsible for updating but Airnav - while appearing to accept responsibility - have in fact delivered nothing.

Remember that next time you switch on - without the volunteer update team, your box would be a doorstop.

£400 for some of us is a lot of money and when we paid that amount we expected to get what we paid for. We didn't.

Misleading? Think again Jetset.

[Runway 31]

We appear to be getting thing mixed up here, deliberately or otherwise, the thread is about the development of the software not about Navdata updates.  If we were to take thing literally I suppose you could state that the Navdata updates are continual software updates as they update the box software whether produced by Airnav or not. 

The Navdata updates published on here are not essential as along with other similar boxes manual updates are very easily undertaken by individual users and some prefer to do this or at least did.  Therefore without the updates whether the box would be a doorstop or not is up to each user and how much effort they want to put into their hobby or to protect their investment.  As far as out the box goes, the first thing you have to do with any software purchase it to go online to update it, Radarbox is no different.

As has been stated over the years there have been some very strong words on here in relation to this matter and this is what jetset will be referring too.  In the current climate some of these statements if made nowadays on Facebook or Twitter could see some being the subject of an investigation.  Similarly highlighting peoples spelling or grammatical errors in an attempt to belittle them to advance an argument is a form of bullying and shouldn't be tolerated either.

The vast majority of users just get on with it and enjoy their box despite some minor software bugs which could and should have been sorted out a long time ago.  However a vocal minority of keyboard warriors think that they can ride roughshod over the views of anyone who doesn't share theirs.  Some of the name calling would be better left in the playground than coming from the hands of adults, surely arguments can be advanced without this.

This debate should have been ended years ago, however I am aware that work is ongoing and an update will be produced, of that I am convinced.  Maybe then some can let go and get on with their lives but no doubt they will find something else to fret about.

Alan

[lambertw]

Runway,if people didn't complain what sort of world would we live in now,a far worse one i'm thinking.

[Marpleman]

The only way the debate will be ended, is if AirNav started to be honest and open with their customers.

They are evasive beyond belief.

I really can't see what harm asking for updates regarding software development, that after all, has been promised by AirNav,for many many months if not years, can do?

If doing this upsets people, then seriously................................

The Navdata updates made available to the forum users, have little to do with any initiative from AirNav. I should know, as back in the day I was one of the original members of the Update team, which came about from consistent pressure being placed on AirNav to do something about the integrity of their database which "shipped" with the product to new customers.

At that time, no "common" data base over and above this existed, and users were left to fend for themselves in respect of updating and adding to the Navdata files.

I have to agree with Bratters, as without these the data output on the VDU would render the box almost archaic as an aid to our hobby.

I therefore think it's more alarming, given my comment above, that nothing would likely have happenend with Navdata without pressure from the customers? Hence the need for continual pressure with proper software developments?

There's little point referencing comments about "harsh words" over the years. I don't see anything I consider harsh recently, nor what I'd constitute bullying?

If I'm being honest, it's comments objecting to some of the valid opinions raised, particularly on this thread, that to me are more offensive, as they effectively tell me I have no right to complain!

[knight01]

Navdata updates don't come under "Continual software updates".  Software and a Database are two different things.   Navdata database update and Software update/patch should never be mixed up.
Database updates will be under heading stated in the listed mentioned in an earlier post - "Auto-population of aircraft and route details".

[Runway 31]

At no time have I said that complaints should not be made and I have made it very clear that the complaints are justified and the debate could have been avoided if Airnav had provided the updates as promised many years ago.

My concern is about the way people are treated when they disagree with the complainers viewpoint, it is as if only the complainers views are valid and anyone stating a different opinion is not to be considered i.e you don't have a clue what you're talking about, or be free to be belittled, "misleading (I assume that's what you meant)" etc


To then go onto to state that you are offended because people object to your opinion, that's a bit rich.  Its nothing to do with valid opinions its the way in which they are made and the response made to people who's views differ from the vocal minorities that I object too.  Some may not have attained high educational levels or be good at putting their points across but that should not leave them open to ridicule especially if its made in an attempt to stifle their opinions.

Any forum member is free to air their views. make valid complaints etc but there is no reason why that debate should not be carried out in a courteous manner without belittling others.

I believe that Airnav made the statements they did with the best of intentions but for various reasons the updates promised never came to fruition but there was no intention of misleading their customers.  I further believe that is about to change and the update will become available in a reasonable timescale. 

Again this is all just my opinion but feel free to disagree and I take your point Knight.

Alan

[Marpleman]

"Various reasons"

Never ,or hardly ever explained to the customer why/what/how/when???

Promises that "never came to fruition"

Exactly!

The only difference in my book, is that this isn't displaying someones best intentions, it's evasion from the facts and taking your customers for granted?

Apologies if I've offended anyone, that was never my intention, and those that know me will realise that, but seriously, there's a limit to how far AirNav can pull the wool over my eyes.

All I'm asking for is the truth and respect a customer deserves?

[lambertw]

We all are waiting and hoping that Airnav will deliver on there words,we all know that at times things can get difficult especially for businesses but if you are not going to deliver Airnav please be honest enough to tell your clients.Then at least we the clients know were we stand and can have settled minds.
Ps,I will always be a supporter of ANRB.