Hardware Error?

[FL350]

Greetings to all,

V3.13 / Windows 7...

I'm experiencing a new problem with my radarbox. I usually filter for ADS-B only aircraft, and my timeout is set to 30 seconds for hardware flights.

In the last few days, the number of hardware flights returned has been fluctuating by multiples of 10 or more (from say, 60 to 50) all at once without any timeout at all. This has never happened before, and the flights should time out for 30 seconds before disappearing off the screen. In fact, I'm not seeing any flights time out - They simply disappear from the screen.

I've cycled power on all hardware and checked all connections to the USB cable (edit: I've also switched to an Windows XP Pro machine and reproduced the problem)

Any input or experience with this issue?

Thanks to all!

[AirNav Support]

Hi FL350,

If you don't filter only by the ADS-B aircraft do you see the time-outs in the list, is there also such variation?

The reason why we ask this, is that some aircraft will show as ADS-B and the as they leave your reception area you won't be getting the longer positions messages from them and they will only show in the full list then appear to time-out when all signals are lost.

[FL350]

Thanks AirNav for the quick reply,

Yes, if I don't filter Hardware Flights I do return a handful of Timeout flights.

However, I no longer see any Timeouts for filtered flights (ADS-B Only) at all. Regardless of filtering, they are dropping in and out (without timeouts) in areas well inside my polar diagram range. In general, I'm also seeing fewer returns during peak times.

So, if I am seeing multiple ADS-B flights (well within my reception range) drop in and out of reception without turning grey on the map I can only assume the hardware or software was somehow affected.

If I loose 10 flights at once, I should see 10 grey returns on the screen (and 10 Timeouts on the list) for time specified to display them. Instead, my screen now glimmers with returns completely dropping off and then returning within a few seconds.

Many thanks for your help, and I hope I've explained this well! Please let me know if I can elaborate on anything.

FL350

[FL350]

From what I have described in my reply, does this sound like a hardware issue?

1) I am returning much fewer hardware flights
2) Hardware ADS-B flight returns fluctuate by as much as 10 to 15 all at once, without timing out on the screen or list
3) What used to be solid trail lines (within strong reception areas) now look very punctuated due to frequency of flights dropping in and out
4) If flights are lost they should first turn to Timeout colour and remain for specified Timout for MyFlights. This is what they did until a few days ago.
Is this possibly a negative effect of upgrading to live network traffic? Please advise if I should consider returning the box for examination.

Thanks

[AirNav Support]

We would suggest trying to take the box to another location. It could be local interference which is causing such large fluctuations. If its still same contact support and we will give you return details.

[tarbat]

Is this possibly a negative effect of upgrading to live network traffic?

Possibly.  My understanding is that aircraft that timeout on the hardware will immediately transition to the Network list if that aircraft is on the live network.  Try turning OFF the live network (untick the "Get Flights from Radarbox Network" box), and see what happens.

Also, check your timeout settings for MyFlights and Network Flights.

[FL350]

Is this possibly a negative effect of upgrading to live network traffic?

Possibly.  My understanding is that aircraft that timeout on the hardware will immediately transition to the Network list if that aircraft is on the live network.  Try turning OFF the live network (untick the "Get Flights from Radarbox Network" box), and see what happens.

Also, check your timeout settings for MyFlights and Network Flights.

Thanks Tarbat,

Actually, that part of the functionality does indeed work properly. Flights on the edge of my range immediately show the network asterisk when I loose them. My timeout setting is 30 seconds and that's what they used to do.

I'm guessing that the issue (while it's intermittent) isn't going to go away, but am checking everything else before I send the box back.

[Northern Watch]

Hi FL340

This is a bit of a long shot but have you changed the USB lead, known problem with some users in the past although this particular problem is a new one on me.

Just a thought!

Hope you get it fixed soon.

Rgds

Keith

[FL350]

Hi FL340

This is a bit of a long shot but have you changed the USB lead, known problem with some users in the past although this particular problem is a new one on me.

Just a thought!

Hope you get it fixed soon.

Rgds

Keith

Hi Keith,

Yes, I did switch it out in the beginning and I had hoped that was the root cause, but no luck.

Airnav, while I think of it, there are no electrical sources near the box (within 3m or so) I did try and move it but no luck there, either.

This issue is clearly intermittent. If it were the aerial, I would of course simply have less returns, shorter range, etc.

When the box is operating properly I have many more returns, solid trails and consistent returns that fluctuate gradually by one or two at a time. Still no timeout flights, but no great fluctuations, either.

When it acts up, the returns I do receive fluctuate immediately by a factor of 5, 10 or more, and the screen looks like a christmas tree. The trails are never solid in this case.

I'd be happy to upload a screen video to demonstrate this if need be.

I hate to be down, and can only guess that I have an audience when I'm running. I return tons of activity right down to the tarmac at KJFK (and happily share, of course).

Thanks!

[AirNav Support]

The hardware has no moving parts so it does seem strange that sometimes it starts playing up, if there is an issue it should affect it always. I would suggest checking a few items first such as when the variations occur check your task manager and check whether the memory or cpu is spiking.

Also close down the software and start it again and see whether the issues go away. Also note the time when it happens.

[tarbat]

Also check for anything that might be turning on around the house that is causing interference.  I believe others have reported problems in the past with certain types of lighting, for example.

EG: http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=2743.msg24597#msg24597

[FL350]

The hardware has no moving parts so it does seem strange that sometimes it starts playing up, if there is an issue it should affect it always. I would suggest checking a few items first such as when the variations occur check your task manager and check whether the memory or cpu is spiking.

Also close down the software and start it again and see whether the issues go away. Also note the time when it happens.

Thanks Airnav for you help thus far.

I have 4GB RAM in which at least 2 is free during typical operation with the software. The CPU isn't over tasked, either. Perhaps 20 per cent max.

I fully understand the box is completely solid state. To that end, I have read that it has been susceptible to ESD in the past. Purely speculation on my part, but it this did happen to be the cause, ESD can most certainly cause intermittent failures in operation.

I do have another question:

Is there a limit to the amount of ADS-B and Mode S data the RadarBox can handle? I have a well-tuned vertical aerial which is mounted about 12m off the ground. The cable to the box is very low loss (about 7m) so I don't require a pre-amp.

What I have noticed since my last post is that the most annoying part of the problem is occurring during heavy traffic periods. I typically return 500 - 800 (and above) messages per second during these times.

During light traffic times the flights don't 'flicker' on and off the screen, the trails are quite solid behind the aircraft, indicating a steady processing of the incoming data. The 'MyFlights' count never jumps by more than 1 or 2 during this time. I still never see 'My Flights' Time Out at all anymore, but this is much less bothersome to me.

Please reference the 4 attachments demonstrating both cases. Two show affected operation and two show normal operation. Also note the time periods for the pairs of screenshots. Also take notice that flights are affected well within my polar diagram, which is more or less the maximum reported range.

I appreciate your help and want to make sure I've addressed all possible causes on my end before sending the box back. I don't want to be without the box if I can fix it myself, and certainly don't want to waste your time, either!

Regards,

FL350

[FL350]

Also check for anything that might be turning on around the house that is causing interference.  I believe others have reported problems in the past with certain types of lighting, for example.

EG: http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=2743.msg24597#msg24597

Hi Tarbat,

I did wonder about that as well, but no changes have occurred in what's turned on in the house. There's nothing electrical (either lines or appliances) close to the box.

Cheers,

FL350

[tarbat]

I have 4GB RAM in which at least 2 is free during typical operation with the software. The CPU isn't over tasked, either. Perhaps 20 per cent max.

Is that 20% of a single CPU core, or across all cores?  For example, if it's a quad core CPU, then 25% would be max'ing out a single core.

What I have noticed since my last post is that the most annoying part of the problem is occurring during heavy traffic periods. I typically return 500 - 800 (and above) messages per second during these times.

I guess you might be getting data collisions with high message volumes - ie. messages being received at the same time interfering with each other.  Maybe others in high traffic areas can comment.

I still never see 'My Flights' Time Out at all anymore, but this is much less bothersome to me.

Is that with the network on or off?  And what exactly are your timeout settings - the two values for local flights?  For example, I use 13 seconds and 107 seconds, so aircraft get marked as TIMEOUT after 13 seconds, and dissapear after another 107 seconds - so appear with TIMEOUT status for 107 seconds.

[FL350]

What I have noticed since my last post is that the most annoying part of the problem is occurring during heavy traffic periods. I typically return 500 - 800 (and above) messages per second during these times.

I guess you might be getting data collisions with high message volumes - ie. messages being received at the same time interfering with each other.  Maybe others in high traffic areas can comment.

I still never see 'My Flights' Time Out at all anymore, but this is much less bothersome to me.

Is that with the network on or off?  And what exactly are your timeout settings - the two values for local flights?  For example, I use 13 seconds and 107 seconds, so aircraft get marked as TIMEOUT after 13 seconds, and dissapear after another 107 seconds.

I've attempted to change the values to a number of ranges, but it really makes no difference. Currently I'm set to 20/30 for radarbox flights. No map (greyed out) or status timeouts at all for ADS-B flights regardless of settings.

In any case, it seems repeatable to see more stable returns during slow hours (not a very large window of opportunity around here).