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Author Topic: Improved Routing Information  (Read 232226 times)

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AirNav Support

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DaveReid

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #361 on: October 06, 2010, 09:07:28 PM »
Sorry, Andrew - I tried !!
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AirNav Support

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #362 on: October 06, 2010, 09:14:21 PM »
Actually speaking to our devs, they say this was actually changed in the past but does not have the exact details.

Andrew can you send us a screenshot of what is in your database, comparing to what you see on the screen.

FYI, Just checking the network, AZ65F is showing with a route, a few AA flights. It may be that the route look up across the network has two and three letter lookup. We will check this.
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andrewarles

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #363 on: October 06, 2010, 09:35:24 PM »
Here are the screen shots I put in previous posts.
16 NM SSW of LFMV (Avignon)
27 NM NW of LFML (Marseille)
Arles, France.

Chris11

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #364 on: October 07, 2010, 04:38:42 AM »
Dave - if the update database only allows one entry per flight number then we need a via field

andrewarles

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #365 on: October 07, 2010, 05:36:46 AM »
Some quick stats from MyLog db for 3 major french airlines

The numbers are unique callsigns.

Air France - 529 callsigns

316 / 60% 2 letter codes (AF)
213 / 40% 3 letter codes (AFR)

Air France Regional - 169 callsigns

134 / 79%  2 letter codes (RA)
35  / 21% 3 letter codes (RAE)

CCM Airlines - 184 callsigns

184 / 100% 2 letter codes (CC)

Out of 882 callsigns, only 248 or 28% will have the chance of being populated.

Andrew
16 NM SSW of LFMV (Avignon)
27 NM NW of LFML (Marseille)
Arles, France.

DaveReid

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #366 on: October 07, 2010, 06:57:26 AM »
Dave - if the update database only allows one entry per flight number then we need a via field

The Flight Route Update database does allow multiple entries per flight number. 

In fact that will often be how it's used.

For example, one member records flight ABC123 taking off from airport XXX, and another member records ABC123 landing at airport YYY, and maybe even taking off from there again if it's a multi-leg flight.

Once takeoffs and landings are matched, they go into a master routes database, but even that one allows for multiple entries per flight number to cope with IVs, like our old friend AIC188, although obviously you won't be able to import more than one route per flight number, or routes with 2 or more stops, into your RadarBox Navdata.
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AirNav Support

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #367 on: October 07, 2010, 07:43:36 AM »
Hi Andrew,

Yes, fingers crossed they realise there mistake and inform the crew when they input the Flight IDs. Obviously that percentage is high but when compared against the rest of flights showing up on the network its very small which have the icao flight id. Infact yesterday when we did the quick check, out of 700 flights on the network we could only find a couple with non icao ids.
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bratters

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #368 on: October 07, 2010, 08:23:17 AM »
Tuesday there was a Ryanair flying about with ID RY. 2numbers 2 letters - an error one assumes.

DaveReid

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #369 on: October 07, 2010, 08:25:26 AM »
Yes, fingers crossed they realise there mistake and inform the crew when they input the Flight IDs. Obviously that percentage is high but when compared against the rest of flights showing up on the network its very small which have the icao flight id. Infact yesterday when we did the quick check, out of 700 flights on the network we could only find a couple with non icao ids.

Does it seem likely that 100% of CCM Airlines crews will "realise there mistake", when clearly they are doing what they have been told to do ?

I don't understand your reference to "only a couple" of flights on the network with non-ICAO IDs - I've just had a quick look at my network log for yesterday and around 25% of Air France flights used IATA callsigns, plus of course all of CCM's.  And that's without taking into account all the regionals' non-ADS-B flights that don't appear on the network at all.

But what I don't understand most of all is your seeming reluctance to agree to what must be a trivial change to the program.  Why not make it work as the manual says it does - if the received FlightID is in your local Routes table, then you will see the route on the screen ?
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AirNav Support

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #370 on: October 07, 2010, 08:35:35 AM »
Can you explain what you mean by your network log? Would you like to go into detail about this?

We do recognise there are flights which are not using the icao conversions incorrectly. However the stats are not that high when compared to the whole network flights stats, infact they are small.

As we have said before and we have to repeat this for the 2nd time to you, we will add this functionality if we deem this problem to be causing major issues. If you want to make a mountain out of a mole hill with this issue Dave then please don't, take the issue up with the airlines as they are the ones causing it.

At the end of the day here, our process is correct and the issue is with the airlines not following correct proceadures. If we were to correct every issue that is caused by ADS-B we would need to correct the drift on some aircraft, the callsign 747 changing issue etc.. We do have the draw the line. 
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RobinB

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #371 on: October 07, 2010, 09:30:23 AM »


In the past when we have seen non ICAO codes they usually been mistakes and eventually been rectified. When the next version is released, if there is a significant portion of non ICAO flights appearing we may change the system to allow these routes.

So is this different from what was said last night ?

Southwest

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #372 on: October 07, 2010, 09:34:35 AM »

As we have said before and we have to repeat this for the 2nd time to you, we will add this functionality if we deem this problem to be causing major issues. If you want to make a mountain out of a mole hill with this issue Dave then please don't, take the issue up with the airlines as they are the ones causing it.

Of course it's a major issue,  25 pages of script should be able to tell you that! something

AirNav Support

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #373 on: October 07, 2010, 09:42:11 AM »
RobinB,

We still investigating whether the network only allows non icao look ups. However our view hasn't changed from last night.We just mentioned it again.

Southwest,

Please read the last few posts again. This hasn't got anything to do with the 24 pages of posts. This is an airline/crew issue.
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tarbat

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Re: Improved Routing Information
« Reply #374 on: October 07, 2010, 10:35:10 AM »
Of those 84 you quote around 25 are Bizjets who use the same callsign on many different routes and should be discounted.

Yes, I suspect these are coming from Libhomeradar, so I've now excluded Libhomeradar from the FD7 lookup sequence.

Interestingly, since excluding Libhomeradar from my FD7 lookup sequence, the success rate in FD7 has dropped to 53%.  That is, out of 893 autopopulate route lookups, FD7 found routes for 470.

So, it looks like we have a choice when using FD7:

1. Include Libhomeradar in the lookup sequence, but suffer from data that is either incorrect, out-of-date, or irrelevant.

2. Exclude Libhomeradar, and only achieve 53% success.

This is not a criticism of FD7.  It just illustrates that none of the established lookup services (Dave's FRL service, FlightStats, Flytecom, & FlightAware) can resolve many of these difficult flight IDs.

For info, these are the Flight IDs where route lookup failed in FD7.    I realise that some of these you would not expect to find a route for (eg all the G-FRA* flights).

3AMRG, AAC587, AC15258, AEA282, AEU501F, AEU502F, AEU504F, AEU901F, AEU901N, AFR83U, AFR84U, AUF433, AWC11H, AWC91A, AXIS01, AZTEC01, AZTEC02, BCS2704, BCY172Y, BCY174Z, BCY176Y, BCY505D, BCY505E, BDI18B, BDI19A, BDI19B, BDI20C, BEE13Y, BEE19M, BEE1CN, BEE1EV, BEE1JM, BEE2DY, BEE2RL, BEE3KR, BEE3LT, BEE3MG, BEE3PR, BEE3RW, BEE3VD, BEE51PM, BEE5BQ, BEE5CX, BEE6CD, BEE6CM, BEE6DL, BEE6DW, BEE6GT, BEE6KB, BEE6RN, BEE7WB, BEE7YQ, BEE8BC, BEE8EW, BEE8RV, BEE9EL, BEE9JG, BEE9YD, BGH9003, BHA6EH, BHL49A, BHL69X, BIRD, BKK3C, BMA1EH, BMA1WC, BMA2EH, BMA375Q, BMA376A, BMA3EH, BMA3NL, BMA3WC, BMA4EH, BMA5EH, BMA5WC, BMA67G, BMA6EH, BMA7EH, BMA7NL, BMA9EH, BMA9NL, BMI24N, BMI62L, BMR134V, BMR1369, BMR160Q, BMR375Q, BMR376A, BMR683V, BMR86DM, BMR9131, BMR9132, BMR9151, CFC4011, CFE25D, CFE64D, CFE75D, CFE97D, CLF8, CLU2349, CLUB2, CMB519, CMB521, CWL45, CWL93, CWL94, DCVJN, DLH404U, DLH440U, EICVR, EIN25S, EXS10J, EXS136P, EXS143P, EXS4E, EXS81PH, EXS9G, EZE1040, EZE1041, EZE11W, EZE12W, EZE13W, EZE14W, EZE19Q, EZE26Z, EZE27K, EZE27Z, EZE28Z, EZE32F, EZE36F, EZE36X, EZE40D, EZE41D, EZE51U, EZE52U, EZE55G, EZE57U, EZE58U, EZE59U, EZE61L, EZE65L, EZE66L, EZE67L, EZE81Z, EZE82Z, EZE83B, EZE88B, EZY12GW, EZY14PM, EZY14PW, EZY14WD, EZY198A, EZY1DH, EZY21LH, EZY2DP, EZY56PH, EZY688Y, EZY695U, EZY6LX, EZY905G, EZY94EG, EZY9VE, EZY9YG, FLJ423F, FLJ427F, FPO301, GBLYK, GCGNE, GFFRA, GFRAH, GFRAI, GFRAK, GFRAP, GFRAR, GFRAT, GFRAU, GFRAW, GLAZL, GLCYA, GMA636, GMA664, GMA685B, GMA691B, GMA701, GMA702, GMA713, GRSKR, GTI604W, GUTS64, HBJUS, HFY611P, HFY612, HFY631, ICE1540, IFA450, IWD6202, JKK235, JTG9880, KLM33G, KLM34G, KLM35Z, KLM36Z, KLM40M, KLM44M, KLM63B, KLM64H, KLM65G, LOG12AT, LOG13ML, LOG14LG, LOG16BM, LOG19ED, LOG21EG, LOG23DB, LOG23HE, LOG26LW, LOG27LR, LOG27RD, LOG32MD, LOG32PA, LOG39DN, LOG41JH, LOG41NW, LOG41VM, LOG45SG, LOG46DM, LOG48AL, LOG48DJ, LOG51HP, LOG52YT, LOG56HL, LOG56NG, LOG57JA, LOG58ML, LOG58WG, LOG58YB, LOG61ZW, LOG62CN, LOG64DZ, LOG67CK, LOG69CW, LOG72YZ, LOG74PN, LOG76WB, LOG781, LOG782F, LOG78HL, LOG78TM, LOG79YE, LOG82VE, LOG830F, LOG83HB, LOG83PZ, LOG83ZM, LOG851, LOG852, LOG87AD, LOG89PE, LOG91DT, LOG91GK, LOG92MU, LOG93VC, LOG96DE, LOG96RH, LOG97GZ, LOG97KG, MBWFC, MIFLY, MINOR, MJF705, MMACH, MMD1332, N218WW, N545CC, N551GA, N555TQ, N624BP, N767A, N767FL, N777KK, N944H, NATO09, NATO10, NATO11, NATO32, NATO33, NATO36, NJE129B, NJE213C, NJE241P, NJE305N, NJE3LD, NJE3VN, NJE467D, NJE4DU, NJE558Q, NJE571U, NJE595P, NJE680G, NJE702E, NJE784P, NPT873, OKMYS, OOMAS, P248, PCH251, PIRATE2, PPR93, PRI603, QAF6, QID30, QID96, RAE556, RAE557, RAE558, RAE559, RAE560, RCH189, RCH228, RCH234, RCH329, RCH353, RCH377, RCH379, RCH385, RCH453, RCH566, RCH578, RCH579, RCH621, RCH697, RCH805, RCH8094, RCH822, RCH988, RFR7171, RRR1693, RRR1918, RYR12KL, RYR16ZE, RYR1T, RYR28ET, RYR2PZ, RYR2RC, RYR2ZH, RYR31FV, RYR3HE, RYR3TC, RYR54ME, RYR57WC, RYR58VQ, RYR5BJ, RYR5WA, RYR5YF, RYR69RF, RYR6DC, RYR6MH, RYR6VP, RYR84CL, RYR8F, RYR93LN, SCARS56, SHT12G, SHT17D, SHT17Q, SHT17S, SHT17U, SHT18C, SHT18E, SHT18F, SHT18H, SHT18V, SHT18Y, SHT18Z, SHT19A, SHT19M, SHT19T, SHT19U, SHT19W, SHT19X, SHT7A, SHT7U, SHT8B, SHT9B, SHT9C, SHT9E, SHT9F, SHT9J, SHT9N, SHT9P, SHT9T, SHT9U, SHT9Y, SHT9Z, SJT113, SJT114, SNOOP55, SRR6565, ST18V, STELLA0, SVA037, SVW1LA, SXN41E, T346S, TARTN31, TARTN32, TCX580K, TCX68GR, TEST000, TVS125, UAL901B, UAL901U, VIK821, VIK83P, VIK891A, VJS697, VKG9992, VTSGT, WDG64, WZZ315Z, WZZ316J, WZZ416K,
« Last Edit: October 07, 2010, 10:37:26 AM by tarbat »