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Author Topic: Shuttle Flights  (Read 27062 times)

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tarbat

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2010, 01:17:56 PM »
As I mentioned before, Loganair are on my to-do list, but alas not very near the top :-)

Thanks.  Any hints/tips on how I could go about finding the Loganair Flight IDs?

DaveReid

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2010, 01:56:26 PM »
Thanks.  Any hints/tips on how I could go about finding the Loganair Flight IDs?

Well the route network is easy enough to establish from the flyBE and Loganair websites.  Then it's just a case of sitting down with a resource like libhomeradar and working out which departures follow which arrivals, making sure that the timings are geographically feasible.

I will confess to having an advantage in that I used to do this kind of thing all the time when I was doing route analyses for an aircraft manufacturer - and that was in pre-Internet days when all we had to work from was the big ABC World Airways Guide !
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tarbat

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2010, 02:30:35 PM »
Well the route network is easy enough to establish from the flyBE and Loganair websites.  Then it's just a case of sitting down with a resource like libhomeradar and working out which departures follow which arrivals, making sure that the timings are geographically feasible.

Thanks Dave, that's the sort of thing I've been trying to do with Loganair flights.  But it seems to involve a lot of guesswork :(   If only I could get reliable MLAT'ing up here.

DeeJay

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2010, 04:09:41 PM »
For shuttle and alpha-numeric flightnumbers, or more correctly callsigns, I tend to use the libhomeradar web. (purely as a look-up facility) and am quite pleased with the results. For my afternoon session on 127.95 (''VATON Sector'') on which many RYR, EZY etc come up with alpha-numeric calls, it de-coded all of the routings except one or two.

knight01

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2010, 08:15:03 PM »
I've created a .csv file from the above flight numbers and added them to the NavData.db3 with SQLmaestro.  The new flights show as added in SQLmaestro, but not in database explorer within Airnav.  I've attached the csv file.
What am i doing wrong?

bratters

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2010, 09:16:07 PM »
Earlier today in response to:
 
"You seem to think Airnav are UK centric and must oblige all the UK market.  They are not, they must oblige the worldwide market."

I somewhat hastily replied:

"......the UK buyer/subscriber has every right to expect that details of "local" airlines such as Ryanair, Easyjet etc are fully covered. These are not peanut operations with half a dozen planes and they form a substantial part not only of the UK picture but of the European picture as well."

Being concerned that I might have overstated things, I've just run a quick count of "Airlines" in today's log. The figures are:

BA               170
Ryanair        135
Easyjet         123
Flybe             64
BMI/Baby       53

and apart from

Lufthansa     85
KLM             66
Air France    51         

no other Airline had more than 38 (Thos Cook and Thomson had 33 each)

 "UK centric"? With a screenful of UK airlines, one could hardly respond any other way.


 

tarbat

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2010, 09:23:34 PM »
I've created a .csv file from the above flight numbers and added them to the NavData.db3 with SQLmaestro.  The new flights show as added in SQLmaestro, but not in database explorer within Airnav.  I've attached the csv file.
What am i doing wrong?

1. Any errors reported when importing in SQLite Maestro?
2. What Operating System?  If Vista or Win7, are you sure you know where the navdata database is located?

knight01

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2010, 09:50:53 PM »
1. Any errors reported when importing in SQLite Maestro?

No errors reported.

2. What Operating System?  If Vista or Win7, are you sure you know where the navdata database is located?


Using Windows 7 Ultimate x64 and NavData.db3 in Airnav Systems/Airnav Rardarbox/Data folder.
I've backed up the original.

I've attached a screenshot of the Navdata.db3 file opened within SQLmaestro with the new data added.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 09:59:37 PM by knight01 »

ACW367

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2010, 10:11:04 PM »
Earlier today in response to:
 
"You seem to think Airnav are UK centric and must oblige all the UK market.  They are not, they must oblige the worldwide market."

I somewhat hastily replied:

"......the UK buyer/subscriber has every right to expect that details of "local" airlines such as Ryanair, Easyjet etc are fully covered. These are not peanut operations with half a dozen planes and they form a substantial part not only of the UK picture but of the European picture as well."

Being concerned that I might have overstated things, I've just run a quick count of "Airlines" in today's log. The figures are:

BA               170
Ryanair        135
Easyjet         123
Flybe             64
BMI/Baby       53

and apart from

Lufthansa     85
KLM             66
Air France    51        

no other Airline had more than 38 (Thos Cook and Thomson had 33 each)

 "UK centric"? With a screenful of UK airlines, one could hardly respond any other way.


Bratters - I was not saying that you individually were not UK centric.  I was saying that Airnav should not concentrate solely on the UK, because UK people complain the loudest on this forum. Don't do the count on myflights, look on the network. Remember Non-european airlines are much slower getting ADS_B so factor the non european aircraft on the network by a factor of 4 to cover this.  IE no AA or DL MD80, No taiwan airlines or Japan domestic etc.  You will see that non-european aircraft outweigh europe ones (remember to factor time zones).  Each will have a flight routing, sometimes using Alpha-numeric.

Therefore Airnav need to treat the whole world equally, sourcing routes for Airlines worldwide.  At the moment we have returns on the network from at least 15 states of the USA, three caribbean islands, three south american countries, just about every state in Europe, two locations in Russia, Namibia, Morocco, South Africa, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, Australia & New Zealand.  Each of these will have users that would like to see routes for the large regional carriers that appear on their screens.  However most of them are aware that there will of course be limitations to what Airnav can do.

What I said is Airnav needs a system (they have chosen Flightstats) to cover all those regions.  Demanding that they develop a seperate system to cover three or four UK airlines that do not have any published online tie-up for their codes and therefore are not converted by flightstats is a very selfish and self centric demand.  You are saying ignore users seeing large airlines in China, Australia because I want mine only.

That is what I meant about you wanting a UK centric system.  Airnav is Worldwide.  The UK is a very small proportion of total airnav users, but we hold the majority of active forum posters.  Therefore it seems to certain users that the UK should be treated as a special case. I vhermentally disagree with that view. Most users in other regions monitor this forum, but have thier own forums (in thier native languages) to exchange info and views with other users in their region.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 10:31:53 PM by ACW367 »

tarbat

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2010, 10:21:53 PM »
Using Windows 7 Ultimate x64 and NavData.db3 in Airnav Systems/Airnav Rardarbox/Data folder.

There's your problem.  You've been updating the wrong database.  The "live" database will be in Win7's Virtual Store at C:\Users\xxxxxxxx\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\AirNav Systems\AirNav RadarBox\Data\NavData.db3

You would have been better advised to install in a non-default folder such as C:\AirNav Systems\AirNav RadarBox\ to avoid all the complications of the Win7 Virtual Store :(
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 10:23:45 PM by tarbat »

ACW367

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2010, 10:23:34 PM »
Bratters

Going back to the original topic
Shuttle flights are easy to decode because the first number is always related to the airport pair and has been for a number of years.  Easyjet and Ryanair re-invent their Alpha-numeric codes just about on a six-monthly cycle as the new timetables come out.  Further compounding the problems for Flightstats or anyone else to accurately assure the tie-up.

knight01

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2010, 10:35:22 PM »
Using Windows 7 Ultimate x64 and NavData.db3 in Airnav Systems/Airnav Rardarbox/Data folder.

There's your problem.  You've been updating the wrong database.  The "live" database will be in Win7's Virtual Store at C:\Users\xxxxxxxx\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\AirNav Systems\AirNav RadarBox\Data\NavData.db3

You would have been better advised to install in a non-default folder such as C:\AirNav Systems\AirNav RadarBox\ to avoid all the complications of the Win7 Virtual Store :(

Thanks got it working.

bratters

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2010, 09:43:14 AM »
Hi again ACW - interesting debate and just what forums are for.

I have to say I can only see Radarbox from the perspective of a paid up customer living in England who bought the box in the belief/hope that it would meet his personal requirements.

My interest centres on the activities at my local airport(s) and to this end I type in my local airport, click on "Airport" and hopefully I see some aircraft comings and goings on screen.

At least that's how it used to be but now, because of the lack of route details, I see very few comings and goings. In fact I see precious little and could be forgiven for thinking the airport had shut down.

I am not saying "ignore users seeing large airlines in China, Australia because I want mine only". I am not in fact saying anything about users elsewhere. Why? Because I AM NOT REMOTELY INTERESTED in users elsewhere. I don't care if there are boxes sited in the Outer Hebrides, Outer Mongolia or Outer Space but I do care, and care very much, that the box located in my home can't provide me with vital details of aircraft located 15 bloomin' miles away.

I bought my box from a little shop down the road on the understanding that it would provide coverage and data of the aircraft flying in MY area via signals received by MY aerial in MY house.

This is what you perceive as "a very selfish and self centric demand". Good Grief!!! What planet are you on? Why else would I, or anyone else, part with £400 plus another £120 for an aerial if it wasn't to see my local flights? Surely that's the basis on which the box was sold - or have I totally misinterpreted matters and Airnav is in fact a charity and I should be worrying about the folk in China!!!!

Maybe happiness is being a paid-up member of an international group of aviation enthusiasts? Perhaps we should be ecstatic about the fact that Airnav has users in Timbuctoo? All fine & dandy but it will cut no ice with people when their boxes don't deliver.

Now back, as you said, to the original topic. In the unfortunate event of some airlines being naughty and changing things, that is a problem for the manufacturer of the equipment. It may be unexpected and it may be tough but it's their problem and it's got to be solved.

Consideration will have to be given to this occurrence happening again, perhaps more frequently so any solution will need to be long term. Any solution also needs to be simple because many users are not particularly computer "literate" and no indication was given at time of purchase that they needed to be so. If the problems can't be fixed, then us "selfish" users with our purely National interests will go elsewhere - and Airnav will find that their large international number was in fact no more than many local numbers added together.

Not an easy problem, but after 50 years running various enterprises with a modicum of success, I know what happens if you don't anticipate and, worse, can't respond quickly to things going pearshaped.

Ask BP.

 


 

Chris11

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2010, 10:40:27 AM »
Pheew you guys in the UK are tough ;)

I can only imagine what it takes to keep a worldwide database of aircraft, flights, airlines, etc up to date. Personally I would put it close to impossible but I live in a 3rd world country (or so we were told when we applied to host the World Cup)

I must admit I did not expect to have my database updated for the ZAR5 000 odd that I paid for the hardware

AirNav Support

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Re: Shuttle Flights
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2010, 10:53:33 AM »
Quote
Now back, as you said, to the original topic. In the unfortunate event of some airlines being naughty and changing things, that is a problem for the manufacturer of the equipment. It may be unexpected and it may be tough but it's their problem and it's got to be solved

Even if it’s impossible and can't be done by websites (tracking aircraft or route lookup sites) whose main job are to track flights?

What do you suggest we do? (Please also remember we are the ONLY ADS-B receiver to actually do this, everybody else doesn't touch this task and leaves it up to the customers or add-ons)

Its interesting here, in the Aircraft database we have gone down the route originally GAS an enthusiast database and then onto volunteer database updaters. In the routes case we have got into an agreement with another company to provide this information.  Both cases are not perfect.

Sorry to be pendatic though where in our leaflets, information etc did we say the route data is 100% accurate for the whole world?
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