AirNav RadarBox
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
 


Author Topic: Database Explorer advice  (Read 8657 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

phil zech

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
Database Explorer advice
« on: April 29, 2010, 03:38:28 PM »
Afternoon All,

This is seperate to all the other postings about how we can keep an updated database.

I currently manually update my database using Winged Words (TAS) , LAAS monthly review.

If I update for example G-???? easyjet  to become G-???? Monarch all I do is change the Reg and Airline in database explorer,  I assume the Mode S code does not change.

However if I change G-???? BMI to  SE-    City Airlines, does the Mode S code change? as it is now registered in a new country.

Therefore if I dont have the new Mode S code , am I wasting my time changing Reg and Airline and would I be best deleting the old record and wait for it to update next time it shows up on RB.

Hope I have explained myself OK

Many thanks

Phil


DaveReid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1815
    • Heathrow last 100 ADS-B arrivals
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 04:05:02 PM »
If I update for example G-???? easyjet  to become G-???? Monarch all I do is change the Reg and Airline in database explorer,  I assume the Mode S code does not change.

However if I change G-???? BMI to  SE-    City Airlines, does the Mode S code change? as it is now registered in a new country.

Therefore if I dont have the new Mode S code , am I wasting my time changing Reg and Airline and would I be best deleting the old record and wait for it to update next time it shows up on RB.

As you have hinted at, the answer to your question varies from country to country. 

The ICAO rules say that as long as an aircraft stays on a particular country's register (G-, N, etc) it should keep the same 24-bit ICAO address (aka hex code). 

Few countries actually operate that way (although the UK does, in fact). 

Many other countries (USA, Canada, Germany, etc) have predefined tie-ups between all allocatable registration marks (whether in use or not) and a corresponding address.  This means that if an aircraft moves to a different registration within a country's registry (e.g. from one N number to another N number) the hex code will change.

In either case, you can't create or change a record in your NavData database unless you know the new hex code.  And if, over time, you pick up more than one aircraft with the same registration/hex code (e.g. re-use of an N number, which is fairly common) you will have to choose which details to store, since none of the databases that come with enthusiast Mode S receivers can handle multiple uses of a hex code.

HTH
Dave
This post has been scanned for any traces of negativity, bias, sarcasm and general anti-social behaviour

phil zech

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 05:25:09 PM »
Thanks for that Dave,

So the best policy until we get the AN database up and running, would be to delete the old record and await for the aircraft with its new identity to show up on ANRB as per GAS.

Cheers

Phil

DaveReid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1815
    • Heathrow last 100 ADS-B arrivals
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 06:07:54 PM »
So the best policy until we get the AN database up and running, would be to delete the old record and await for the aircraft with its new identity to show up on ANRB as per GAS.

You will need to ask AirNav exactly how the populate routine works. 

I know that the AT (Aircraft Type) field in the database doesn't currently get populated when a new record is created (or an existing one repopulated) which is why there are so many records with dodgy type codes or the dreaded three dots.
This post has been scanned for any traces of negativity, bias, sarcasm and general anti-social behaviour

ACW367

  • Guest
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2010, 06:57:18 PM »
A list of common UK ones can be found at this topic. 

http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=2102
I will ensure these are now all recorded correctly on the Airnav database as a matter of priority

There are now 6 of us currently checking the data and a miniumum of 90.000 hexcodes to workthrough.  We are prioritising the modern airline types. Please bear with us

Regards
ACW367

DaveReid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1815
    • Heathrow last 100 ADS-B arrivals
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2010, 11:31:37 PM »
A list of common UK ones can be found at this topic. 

http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=2102
I will ensure these are now all recorded correctly on the Airnav database as a matter of priority

Changes of G- registration are more common than you might think - in the three years since G-JEMB became G-OOAF there have been another 190 such instances.
This post has been scanned for any traces of negativity, bias, sarcasm and general anti-social behaviour

ACW367

  • Guest
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 12:41:25 AM »
Dave we are aware that UK mode S tie-ups change almost weekly.  With the enormity of the database checking task we will get to them, but thought it was best to prioritise airliners as this benefits the worldwide Airnav community, not just UK users.  All will be got to in due course but it is an enormous undertaking that won't be completed in days or weeks.

Regards
ACW367

DaveReid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1815
    • Heathrow last 100 ADS-B arrivals
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 07:32:57 AM »
Dave we are aware that UK mode S tie-ups change almost weekly.  With the enormity of the database checking task we will get to them, but thought it was best to prioritise airliners as this benefits the worldwide Airnav community, not just UK users.  All will be got to in due course but it is an enormous undertaking that won't be completed in days or weeks.

Sorry, yes I appreciate the enormity of the task as well as anyone, I hadn't realised that research resources were so constrained.

But in that case, have you thought of suggesting that AirNav simply buy that information direct from the CAA ?

Surely that would save you guys a heck of a lot of pointless and unnecessary work ?  It's readily available:



It's a continuing mystery to me why AirNav persist in the belief that they are somehow entitled to get, for free, data that the rest of the industry expects to have to pay for.

And no, before you ask, I'm not on commission from the CAA :-)
This post has been scanned for any traces of negativity, bias, sarcasm and general anti-social behaviour

pjm

  • RadarBox Beta Testers
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 477
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 07:59:49 AM »
simply buy that information direct from the CAA ?

Just had a look at their database Dave. It didn't have any of the Australian aircraft I type in listed. Seems to be a very incomplete database!


Marpleman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 738
  • Proper aeroplanes!
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 08:22:33 AM »
simply buy that information direct from the CAA ?

Just had a look at their database Dave. It didn't have any of the Australian aircraft I type in listed. Seems to be a very incomplete database!



pjm

Am I missing something here ?  Surely the CAA database is only going to represent UK airframes, so don't see how any Aussie craft would be accommodated?

Rgds

Rich

DaveReid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1815
    • Heathrow last 100 ADS-B arrivals
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 08:54:02 AM »
Just had a look at their database Dave. It didn't have any of the Australian aircraft I type in listed. Seems to be a very incomplete database!

Er, yes, it's the UK CAA, so obviously it concerns itself with UK aircraft.

So clearly the time saved in not having to research those could be used instead to research Australian aircraft.

Or am I missing something here ?
This post has been scanned for any traces of negativity, bias, sarcasm and general anti-social behaviour

Marpleman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 738
  • Proper aeroplanes!
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 09:22:54 AM »
Just had a look at their database Dave. It didn't have any of the Australian aircraft I type in listed. Seems to be a very incomplete database!

Er, yes, it's the UK CAA, so obviously it concerns itself with UK aircraft.

So clearly the time saved in not having to research those could be used instead to research Australian aircraft.



Makes it much more fun though!!!

Dave - on a more serious note, I'm aware the US have/had a similar resource many moons ago, but are you aware if most other westernised countries have such, specifically from the respective Aviation Authorities?


Cheers

Rich

RodBearden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9155
    • Rod's RadarBox Downloads
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 09:25:50 AM »
Rich

GAS have a page on all the official registers that they've come across: http://www.gatwickaviationsociety.org.uk/registers_official.asp

Hope that helps

Rod
Rod

pjm

  • RadarBox Beta Testers
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 477
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2010, 09:34:15 AM »
Or am I missing something here ?

Seems ironic to me that you would be suggesting the purchase of some database updates that only contain partial information (a small part of the world).

DaveReid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1815
    • Heathrow last 100 ADS-B arrivals
Re: Database Explorer advice
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 09:51:06 AM »
Seems ironic to me that you would be suggesting the purchase of some database updates that only contain partial information (a small part of the world).

On the contrary, it seems entirely logical to me. 

As of yesterday, there are 20,807 aircraft on the UK register.

So 20,807 records in NavData that are guaranteed to be correct without requiring any expenditure of effort - that's a pretty good start, I would have thought.

Where's the problem with that ?
This post has been scanned for any traces of negativity, bias, sarcasm and general anti-social behaviour