anything
AirNav RadarBox
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
 


Author Topic: Plane plotter and Airnav  (Read 24905 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Runway 31

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32632
Plane plotter and Airnav
« on: April 16, 2010, 07:03:43 PM »
I noted the following on another forum.  Can you advise me if Airnav is compatible with PP.

Hi
> I'm fairly new to all this and this group so am looking for some info.
> I recently purchased a Airnav Radar Box and am using the supplied
> software and antenna. What I wanted to know is can I track Military
> aircraft & light aircraft or is it just commericial aircraft? Also is
> this the best software to use?
>
> Many thanks in advance
>
> Elliot

Elliot,

Plane Plotter will allow tracking of mil aircraft only if there are enough people running the Kinetic SBS (/not/ the less capable Air Nav box), so if you are considering getting something the Kinetic is the one to go for.
See if you can sell the AirNav box and get a second-hand Kinetic.  <G>

But your input to Plane Plotter (one-off cost 25 Euro) would be most welcome.  Mil (Mlat) plotting costs 12 Euro a year (but it's free if you are uploading from a Kinetic SBS box).  Plane Plotter is a super add-on for your box.

Cheers,
David
--
Sa

Tallyho

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 95
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2010, 07:26:48 PM »
Hi David
PP works fine with ANRB, I run the two together on my machine and have done for sometime.
I use my ANRB to feed both the RB network and the PP network.
I purchased the one off payment to subscribe to the PP network and do not use the RB network for three reasons 1) cost and 2) access to download and store network data 3) ability to MLAT non positional traffic (e.g. GA MODE-S aircraft).

I therefore just use my RB to look at my local data and I use PP for the rest of the world (although I am mainly interested in UK airspace traffic which has fantastic PP coverage).

What the extract refers to below is the ability to feed the PP network with MLAT data, the SBS can do this but RB cannot due to the internals of the box (all above my head). However this does not stop you from using the MLAT feature in PP to obtain positional data for non positional Mode-S reports. Planeplotter enables all users to do this for a very small one off fee, (SBS MLAT Ground Stations that contribute MLAT for all other users data do not have to pay this one off cost).

In my opinion ANRB has a better interface than the SBS and for those that want to spend out on it, it has the network capability built in.
In my case the PP network offers a much cheaper alternative with more functionailty that I require. It's horses for courses.

I would highly recommend PP to either SBS or RB users.

PS - PP can also be used with no SBS or RB, it also interfaces with some newer alternative ADS-B revceivers that are now available.

I hope this helps if you need any more info ask away.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 07:31:11 PM by Tallyho »

Runway 31

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32632
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 07:36:20 PM »
Thanks for that explanation Tallyho, much appreciated.  How easy is it to set up ANRB with PP.?

Tallyho

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 95
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2010, 06:44:43 AM »
It's very simple to setup... it comes with an install wizard that runs on install, just answer the questions.
If you have any problems PP has a very active and helpful community/forum on yahoo groups...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/planeplotter/

Some useful info here...
http://www.mantma.co.uk/pp_support.html
http://www.mantma.co.uk/pp_faq.html

Keith

Runway 31

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32632
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2010, 08:08:05 AM »
Thanks for your assistance Keith, I will have a look and give it a go.

Alan

NF2G

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2010, 12:24:35 PM »
The quoted comment about tracking military aircraft is, AFAIK, baloney.

Military aircraft do not usually transmit ADS-B location information.  They keep track of each other with onboard radar and TACAN.  Any of the virtual radar devices will detect military aircraft that have operational transponders, just like any other flight.


tarbat

  • ShipTrax Beta Testers
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4219
    • Radarbox at Easter Ross
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2010, 12:31:08 PM »
The quoted comment about tracking military aircraft is, AFAIK, baloney.

Military aircraft do not usually transmit ADS-B location information.  They keep track of each other with onboard radar and TACAN.  Any of the virtual radar devices will detect military aircraft that have operational transponders, just like any other flight.



Planeplotter uses multilateration to track the position of military, and other non-ADS-B equipped aircraft.  Example of tracking a Nimrod at http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=4578.msg45827#msg45827
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 12:34:14 PM by tarbat »

DaveReid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1815
    • Heathrow last 100 ADS-B arrivals
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2010, 01:20:20 PM »
The quoted comment about tracking military aircraft is, AFAIK, baloney.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilateration
This post has been scanned for any traces of negativity, bias, sarcasm and general anti-social behaviour

Allocator

  • RadarBox24.com Beta Testers
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3568
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2010, 01:40:44 PM »
It's very simple to setup... it comes with an install wizard that runs on install, just answer the questions.
If you have any problems PP has a very active and helpful community/forum on yahoo groups...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/planeplotter/

Some useful info here...
http://www.mantma.co.uk/pp_support.html
http://www.mantma.co.uk/pp_faq.html

Keith

Keith,

I wouldn't agree that PP is 'easy' to set up.  I've been using PP for a number of years and helped Bev with a little bit of Beta testing to get RB to work with PP shortly after RB was launched.  PP has a vast number of options - which is a good thing and a bad thing - and often the help file lags behind Bev's constant development.  I would agree it's not difficult to set up if you know what you are doing and this is where the forum comes in.  Although the PP forum is very informative, as it's the standard Yahoo item, threads soon drop off the bottom of the page and sometimes it's difficult to find stuff.

I've got 2 registered versions of PP including 2 subscriptions to Mlat.  Mlat does work after a fashion, but it's far from perfect in the way that it works and in how the aircraft are tracked and displayed.  Display of non-positional aircraft is totally dependant on Bev's server and also on people feeding data to the server from their Mode S boxes - so when it's working it's fine, but there are no guarantees as to coverage and performance.

I'm not knocking PP and I'd recommend that people give it a try- bearing in mind that you can't access shared data without paying the one-off registration fee, and you won't get Mlat data unless you pay another small annual fee (unless you are feeding valid data in a format that allows Mlat data processing).  Even though I paid 2 registration fees for Mlat to support Bev's development, I don't think that I'll be renewing after the 12 months as I'm just not using PP enough.  I will still use PP occasionally to see how development is proceeding, but I get what I need on a day-to-day basis from RB.

DaveReid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1815
    • Heathrow last 100 ADS-B arrivals
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2010, 02:04:39 PM »
Display of non-positional aircraft is totally dependant on Bev's server and also on people feeding data to the server from their Mode S boxes - so when it's working it's fine, but there are no guarantees as to coverage and performance.

It will be interesting to see AirNav's approach to multilateration which, we're told, will be different, although presumably still dependent on server processing of data from users' boxes.
This post has been scanned for any traces of negativity, bias, sarcasm and general anti-social behaviour

Tallyho

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 95
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2010, 03:39:07 PM »
Really I thought PP setup was simple... and probably no different to SBS.

If you want to be an MLAT contributor via an SBS then that is a different matter, a little more technical no how and assistance is required from the forum.

However if you are just running up adding a few charts and linking to your SBS or RB to me it was just a few tick boxes and pointing to the correct file locations and presto.

Keith

Tallyho

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 95
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2010, 03:51:01 PM »
Quote
Display of non-positional aircraft is totally dependant on Bev's server and also on people feeding data to the server from their Mode S boxes - so when it's working it's fine, but there are no guarantees as to coverage and performance.

No different to Airnav's network server there then, or anyone elses for that matter !

At the moment it has no competitiors for MLAT capabilities, therefore it is the best and only system to use.
I am not a big user of MLAT but everytime I have tried it with PP, it has worked for me, so I am happy.

If/when a competitor appears I will look at it, if it offers better performance/value then I may change but right now PP is the system of choice for me for shared network/MLAT, it does all I want for the right price.


AirNav Development

  • AirNav Systems
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2545
    • AirNav Systems
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2010, 04:17:05 PM »
It's widely known that the way PP does MLAT is extremely unreliable. It was a clever of doing MLAT with the hardware the market offers nowadays. When we have our own MLAT solution is will be accurate and reliable otherwise we won't release it.

Allocator

  • RadarBox24.com Beta Testers
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3568
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2010, 04:56:34 PM »
Really I thought PP setup was simple... and probably no different to SBS.

When you first run PP, there are no maps, no database, no default setting that work for RB.  All the things you mention in the setup are very simple - if you know what you are doing!  Even now, there is more than one PP setup that appears to work with RB data, but I'm blowed if I know which one I should be using :-)

Again, I don't want to put anybody off, nor to slight the excellent work that Bev continues to do - but there have been quite a few people who have installed PP, run it and been totally confused as to how it works.

DaveReid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1815
    • Heathrow last 100 ADS-B arrivals
Re: Plane plotter and Airnav
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2010, 05:02:29 PM »
It's widely known that the way PP does MLAT is extremely unreliable. It was a clever of doing MLAT with the hardware the market offers nowadays. When we have our own MLAT solution is will be accurate and reliable otherwise we won't release it.

Will your solution work with existing RadarBox hardware ?  Or is it too early to ask that question ?
This post has been scanned for any traces of negativity, bias, sarcasm and general anti-social behaviour