How can I track the military traffics?

[onuresenlik]

Hi all,

I'm working for an aircraft manufacturer company and using this radar box on flight operations room. As we have to track our aircrafts (most of them are military aircraft), I need your help.

1. Is there an setup on the software to track the military aircraft?
2. If not, what mode should the aircraft use on the transponder (C, S, etc?) to let us to track them?

Thx a lot!

[Allocator]

The aircraft need to be fitted with a Mode S transponder which is then provided with GPS data so that position information is transmitted and then the aircraft can be displayed on the RB map.

See this example:

http://www.lxavionics.co.uk/transponders.htm

If the optional TRT 800EMSS address adapter is fitted the RS 232 interface allows connection to a GPS reveiver to support ADS-B Out functionality (Broadcasting of own position for processing by other aircraft for collision avoidance.)

Just remember that if you can track your aircraft, so can everybody else - is this what you really want?

[onuresenlik]

Tracking for other users is not important as the aircrafts that we follow are on test flights as civilians.

What I understand is; if they would keep their transponders on mode S, we can track them. Is that right?

[Allocator]

Tracking for other users is not important as the aircrafts that we follow are on test flights as civilians.

What I understand is; if they would keep their transponders on mode S, we can track them. Is that right?

No, if they have their Mode S transponder on, you will see the aircraft in the aircraft list, but you will not see them on the map UNLESS they are transmitting their position as well.  For them to transmit their position, the aircraft GPS must be connected to the Mode S transponder.

See this video which explains this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlCWQv5SaNg

[onuresenlik]

It is cleared now. I'll check the video and contact again if anything necessary.

Thx a lot!

[viking9]

It is cleared now. I'll check the video and contact again if anything necessary.

Thx a lot!

There is only one way you can track mode-S only aircraft and that is by using multilateration via an application called PlanePlotter.

You should also note that mode-s signals will not be received by a virtual radar box such as RadarBox unless the aircraft transponder is being interrogated by a secondary surveillance radar (SSR).

Follow this link for further information on PlanePlotter:

http://www.coaa.co.uk/planeplotter.htm

Tom

[DaveReid]

You should also note that mode-s signals will not be received by a virtual radar box such as RadarBox unless the aircraft transponder is being interrogated by a secondary surveillance radar (SSR).

Won't RadarBox (and SBS) receive DF11 TCAS acquisition squitters (from a TCAS-equipped aircraft) regardless of whether or not it's in range of a ground radar ?

[viking9]

Won't RadarBox (and SBS) receive DF11 TCAS acquisition squitters (from a TCAS-equipped aircraft) regardless of whether or not it's in range of a ground radar ?

Yes, Dave. I didn't realise the aircraft in question had TCAS. He just mentioned Mode-S.

Tom

[Allocator]

Also, PlanePlotter multilateration will not work unless there are sufficient master users providing data an we don't know where onuresenlik is located.

Also, the PP multilateration plots are not exactly high fidelity.

[DaveReid]

Won't RadarBox (and SBS) receive DF11 TCAS acquisition squitters (from a TCAS-equipped aircraft) regardless of whether or not it's in range of a ground radar ?

Yes, Dave. I didn't realise the aircraft in question had TCAS. He just mentioned Mode-S.

Tom

It does seem rather strange - the OP doesn't seem to know what kit his own company's products carry ...

[viking9]

Also, PlanePlotter multilateration will not work unless there are sufficient master users providing data an we don't know where onuresenlik is located.

Well, yes but it's his only alternative to a professional multilateration ssytem or installing their own ATC radar. If they are outside the current coverage  he could get his company to buy ten or so SBS-1 boxes and PCs and set up their own chain of ground stations remotely controlled by an intranet.

Also, the PP multilateration plots are not exactly high fidelity.

I don't know how much you use PP Mlat but I use it every day and track military aircraft in Irish, UK and some EU airspace usually for hundreds of miles. We do suffer from some deviations due to out of place Ground Stations (it is they that send the raw data, not Master Users), but knowing the routes these aircraft follow we consistently achieve a high degree of accuracy. The PP team is on hand all the time to shut out rogue stations until they sort their problems out.

My main interest is mil aircraft tracking and I can tell you that I would not have recently bought an SBS-1er in order to contribute raw data if the system were less than highly usable. Additionally, the number of SBS-1 Ground Stations coming on line every day means that there will soon be a level of redundancy which will reduce or negate the effect of any rogue station.

[tarbat]

Also, the PP multilateration plots are not exactly high fidelity.

We do suffer from some deviations due to out of place Ground Stations (it is they that send the raw data, not Master Users), but knowing the routes these aircraft follow we consistently achieve a high degree of accuracy.

You call this a high degree of accuracy?  If you're going to promote Planeplotter, at least be honest about the level of accuracy.

How could this flight of G-EMBI be considered accurate?

[viking9]

Of course not. And you know the reason why - because there are not many ground stations in your neck of the woods.

How about the rest of the flight, did you track it?

Looking on the bright side - without PlanePlotter you wouldn't have had a clue as to where it was anyway.

[tarbat]

Of course not. And you know the reason why - because there are not many ground stations in your neck of the woods.

So aren't 4 ground stations enough then?  Just how many ground stations do you need to get an accurate position?  As I say, if you're going to promote a product on here, expect your sales-pitch to be challenged by those of us dissapointed with it.

How about the rest of the flight, did you track it?

No, since it went out of my area of interest.

[viking9]

So aren't 4 ground stations enough then?  Just how many ground stations do you need to get an accurate position?  As I say, if you're going to promote a product on here, expect your sales-pitch to be challenged by those of us disappointed with it.

Well Tarbat, I have nothing to do with COAA and I am not making a sales pitch for PlanePlotter; I'm just a very satisfied user. If you read my posts properly you will see that I suggested that the OP look at the PlanePlotter site, I didn't tell him to buy it.

I'm not absolutely sure how many ground stations are required to give accurate fixes and tracks. Do you know if all three stations were operational at that time? I've just tracked three USAF C-17s for over 200 miles and all showed perfect tracks along their ATC routings apart from very slight deviations due to course corrections.

Of course a lot depends on how savvy the user is with multilateration. I'm very savvy and have set mine up on two PCs and three laptops in minutes.

I  remember you had a bad attitude to the PP people right from the start because you were unable to set it up properly. Your posts are still on the user group forum. Perhaps you still have not got it right.

Why not pop over there and see the number of new users who are getting Master User and Ground Station authorization every day. It may not be perfect but it's getting better and it's getting better every day.