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Author Topic: Database update info  (Read 124499 times)

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rnsavage

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2010, 08:13:27 PM »
Thought I would add some comments to this post.

Firstly, one of the limitations of the current design of AirNav RB once the database is populated with an aircraft details, and they were wrong or then updated (i.e. American's reuse the same reg, which will have the same ModeS code), your RB will bring up the wrong details - which I think is the crux of this post. I know if you post your log to the Mode S group, they will check your details are correct.

What would be a nice addition to the RB product, would be if you could do something similar from the Reporter application (i.e. create a CSV report, that could be then checked via an online source, your data was correct). That way, you would benefit from any data updates that were provided online. This would always depend on a bulk checking option from an online source (note this is not the same as using the populate option in the reporter application, which checks your local database, or if not in, checks online).

Re: ADU. I know the guys very well who do ADU, and the database design (as I originally wrote the product that came before this product (Registration Details), and ADU starting point was my design. The data in this product is excellent with a very good data team in place, and I am sure if Steve is writing something to interface with RB, it will complement it.

I also like a comment in another post, in AirNav having an online source of data. It would be interesting option to put a poll on, to see if people were willing to pay X amount a month for this; or, speaking to the likes of ADU to offer a similar service. When I was doing my database application, one of my thoughts would of been an online application rather than a standalone (as then you don't have to worry about downloading updates!).

Rick






DaveReid

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2010, 09:57:02 PM »
Firstly, one of the limitations of the current design of AirNav RB once the database is populated with an aircraft details, and they were wrong or then updated (i.e. American's reuse the same reg, which will have the same ModeS code), your RB will bring up the wrong details - which I think is the crux of this post.

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Designing a database schema to cope with the different ways that various countries handle the relationship between airframes, registrations and ICAO24 codes is a far from trivial exercise.  While a flat-file format is just about OK for exporting an instantaneous snapshot of the data, you can't possibly expect to be able to model the way the world works and maintain data effectively without a proper relational, multi-table schema.  That's the mistake that, perhaps understandably, both Kinetic and AirNav made when they fixed the format of the databases that they ship with their respective products.

Using the ICAO24 as a unique PK is a no-no, that can't cope either with what happens in the US where, as you rightly say, codes stay with registrations and can move from one aircraft to another, or with what countries like the UK do, where a code stays with the airframe even if it's re-registered.  And that's before you start to consider issues like on-off miscodes.

I've yet to see a schema that can handle all these scenarios that doesn't contain at least 6 (ideally 7) tables to model the various interrelationships between airframes, registrations and ICAO24 codes.

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DaveReid

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #62 on: March 05, 2010, 09:48:10 AM »
No sign yet of the promised developments on this front (presumably 3D distractions).

In the meantime, for anyone who is maintaining their own NavData.db3, here's one that popped up in this morning's network log:

Mode S: 738045
Reg: 4X-ELE
Type: Boeing 747-412
ICAO: B744
MSN: 26551

Currently populates as Registration: 4X-ELS (which went to Cathay Pacific as B-HKT in 2007)

This information is hereby placed in the public domain and may be freely used without attribution by any individual or organisation.

MTIA
Dave
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DaveReid

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2010, 12:28:00 PM »
On the network this morning:

Mode S: C04081
Reg: C-FYLC
Type: Boeing 737-8BK2
ICAO: B738
MSN: 33029

Currently populates as ICAO: A343 (with A340-300 silhouette)

This information is hereby placed in the public domain and may be freely used without attribution by any individual or organisation.

MTIA
Dave
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DaveReid

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #64 on: March 07, 2010, 11:01:38 AM »
Currently on the network:

Mode S: 393A6E
Reg: F-GOTO
Type: Airbus A330-323X
ICAO: A333
MSN: 1021

Currently populates as ICAO: F172 (no silhouette)

This information is hereby placed in the public domain and may be freely used without attribution by any individual or organisation.

MTIA
Dave
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MIKE.UTD

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2010, 07:53:46 PM »
Hi,
I use Aerodata as my database which is very accurate and updated weekly. A few mates who went to the Florida area in Feb used the other machine with this database and was very accurate. Give Paul Turnbull a bell to see if a deal can be done.
If I remember it is free to download and updated monthly.

Marpleman

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2010, 08:20:42 PM »
Hi,
I use Aerodata as my database which is very accurate and updated weekly. A few mates who went to the Florida area in Feb used the other machine with this database and was very accurate. Give Paul Turnbull a bell to see if a deal can be done.
If I remember it is free to download and updated monthly.


Hi Mike

Likewise - i've used Aerodata for the past 7-8 years,and can't speak more highly of it.

Do you use the RB analyser with yours also?

Rich

DaveReid

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2010, 08:27:58 AM »
On the network yesterday:

Mode S: 342553
Reg: EC-KCP
Type: Airbus A330-343X
ICAO: A333
MSN: 833

Currently populates as Reg: F-WWKO;  Type: Airbus A330-302;  MSN: 994

This information is hereby placed in the public domain and may be freely used without attribution by any individual or organisation.

MTIA
Dave
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mjleprix

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2010, 09:46:53 AM »
As far as data bases goes ,I have used both Aerodate and ADU over a number of years and,whilst the data supplied is equally first class, I have a personal preference for ADU. I find the layout and presentation of the data better and the reports available getting better every year. Another consideration is that it is cheaper ,representing, to me ,better value. But each I repeat have their merits.
What we all most definately need is a better database for Airnav, and I'm happy that they are working to that end.
Mike P

DaveReid

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2010, 06:16:15 PM »
Currently on the network:

Mode S: 8961F5
Reg: A6-ABN
Type: Airbus A320-214
ICAO: A320
MSN: 3152

Currently populates as Registration A6-ABM;  Type: British Aerospace BAe-748 Srs2B/426;  MSN: 1799

This information is hereby placed in the public domain and may be freely used without attribution by any individual or organisation.

MTIA
Dave
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Pinza

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #70 on: March 08, 2010, 10:47:10 PM »
Mode S: 4CA810

Appears to be a new Ryanair delivery B738 (35028/3199)

On Dublin to Stansted tonight and not LX-ARC as reported.

LX-ARC also reported by Mode-S 4D02C3 - interesting - but must a-bed!

DaveReid

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #71 on: March 08, 2010, 11:05:22 PM »
Mode S: 4CA810

Appears to be a new Ryanair delivery B738 (35028/3199)

On Dublin to Stansted tonight and not LX-ARC as reported.

LX-ARC also reported by Mode-S 4D02C3 - interesting - but must a-bed!

EI-EKP
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ACW367

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #72 on: March 09, 2010, 01:08:45 AM »
I agree that Aerodata does have a good database for Mode S to Registration tie-ups.  It is also relatively quick in removing aircraft that have been WFU or reregistered.

Unfortunately Aerodata does not always use ICAO codes which we have all campaigned for.  Search the data for F10A, H25X, B73B and many more. So in my opinion it would need manual work before being uploaded to the Navdata to correct these many ICAO code anomolies. 

Airnav have always stated they want a fully automated process and therefore I don't think they will go for this.

DaveReid

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #73 on: March 09, 2010, 07:57:53 AM »
I agree that Aerodata does have a good database for Mode S to Registration tie-ups.  It is also relatively quick in removing aircraft that have been WFU or reregistered.

Unfortunately Aerodata does not always use ICAO codes which we have all campaigned for.  Search the data for F10A, H25X, B73B and many more. So in my opinion it would need manual work before being uploaded to the Navdata to correct these many ICAO code anomolies. 

Airnav have always stated they want a fully automated process and therefore I don't think they will go for this.

Absolutely correct, use of standard ICAO type designators should be a no-brainer for any database that wants to be taken seriously.

Equally desirable IMHO are standardised type descriptors - there is no excuse for this kind of mess (from the NavData.db3 that comes with RadarBox 3D):

Canadair CL-600-2B16 Challenger 604
Canadair CL600-2B16 (604)
Canadair CL604
Canadair CL604 Challenger

For some good background reading about how the industry is tackling this issue (but equally applicable to enthusiast databases), visit www.intlaviationstandards.org/Documents/CICTTStandardBriefing.pdf
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ACW367

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Re: Database update info
« Reply #74 on: March 09, 2010, 04:03:04 PM »

Absolutely correct, use of standard ICAO type designators should be a no-brainer for any database that wants to be taken seriously.

Equally desirable IMHO are standardised type descriptors - there is no excuse for this kind of mess (from the NavData.db3 that comes with RadarBox 3D):

Canadair CL-600-2B16 Challenger 604
Canadair CL600-2B16 (604)
Canadair CL604
Canadair CL604 Challenger


Dave

To be fair that info is mostly populated from Airliners.net.  Maybe you should press on their forums that they standardise the attributions that users have available to add when they upload photos to that site.

Regards
ACW367