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Author Topic: More live aircraft without network  (Read 32089 times)

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AirNav Support

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2009, 12:25:55 PM »
The only issue which would cause an affect, is if your computer is struggling to cope with the network it will be overloaded and hence start to miss mesages being sent by the RB.
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Fenris

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2009, 12:30:48 PM »
This has been mentioned a few times by customers and we have looked at our selves many times, but can't see any data proof to confirm this.

We put it down to how our brain works :) Its easy to work out a plot map in our mind when there is a less aircraft on the screen, when the network is on its a bit more chaotic and its hard to judge.

Well, if My Flights shows a smaller number of entries with network enabled then the assessment of the map display is not relevant.

As to the comment about the PC struggling to decode all the messages, please could people suffering this problem indicate their PC specs, OS version, processor speed and RAM should be sufficient.

sterigia

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2009, 12:37:24 PM »
i have a dual core duo 3.2 mhz, a nvidia card with 1 gig ram on board , vista utlimate 4 gigs ram  2x1 terabyte sata disks, it should not and does not struggle with rb now i have the 3.7 release. cpu usage is less than 10% usually and memory less than 25%, with a previous version of anrb the program did respond slowly  and sometimes hang but now it's ok and has a faster response than before. the only thing that is slow is probably my network which promises up to 10mbits/sec but is usualy less than 10% of what is promised. as measured with speedtest.
ciao
frank
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 12:47:57 PM by sterigia »
ciao.
frank

MikeC

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2009, 03:57:51 PM »
Surely this is something that AirNav should be able to replicate, especially as a number of customers are reporting the same experience?

I don't subscribe to the network, so I can't replicate.

landyman

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2009, 09:00:53 PM »
Since my subscription to the network ceased I'm getting far more live aircraft and at greater range in Beta 3.07. I'm seeing an increase of some 30% aircraft and up to 614 messages/sec whereas I never saw more than 300 messages/sec before.

Tom


Same here.

I've not tested this, and I only bought my RB at the beginning of this month, so have little experience of RB.  But have been using and programming personal computers for over 30 years.  In 1978 I had a box connected between a radio and an 8KB, CBM PET which displayed the received data.

I would like to know in outline, how the RB system works.  This would help in understanding problems that I and others experience.

I suspect that the black box is multi-part.  It has a receiver and probably a decoder, but this may be done in software on the PC.  There is also a dongle within the black box as the program wont display internet data without a connected RB.  (For young readers, a dongle was hardware connected to a PC port to protect a program from running without paying for it.)

When I first saw the high number of msgs/Sec my immediate concern was the high number and how could so many packets be processed in that time.  I don't know the size of these packets so was unable to do the math, but it looks to be to be too high a number for all to be processed every second.

So is this why there are so many faults reported by users?  The PC is unable to handle everything.

The RB program has to:-

1.  react to user input
2.  react to black box data
3.  react to internet data.
4.  update the list
5.  update the map
6.  select and display alerts.
7.  keep MyLog updated
8.  handle the various outputs to ports
etc.

All these are probably in separate threads, so which have higher priority?

If the data is decoded in the black box, does it have a buffer, so that data that can't be accepted by the program, is not lost?

Clearly the company relies heavily on it's customers to provide debugging support and there is nothing wrong in this, providing the released version (V-2.01 today) works satisfactorily.  I leave users to make their own decision on that point!  Perhaps if more information about how the system (black box & program) works was available, then customers would be better able to report on problems experienced.

As Windows is a multitasking OS, then the processor has to continue with other programs in the background.

So are the 'Requirements' as printed on the sales box realistic?  I would suggest they are probably wrong, unless RB is the only program running (apart from internet protection software).

This PC is less that a year old.  It arrived with Vista partly installed, so I completed that and immediately 'upgraded' to XP Pro with the supplied OEM disks.  It has an Intel Core2 Duo CPU running at 2.6GHz and has 1.7GB of 2.60GHz RAM.  But it is not a 'games' PC with a fast screen controller.

I've now given up running RB while doing other work on the PC as the frequent delays caused by RB are too annoying.

So are live packets received by radio lost due to the lack of a data buffer?

This bottleneck in processing could also be the reason for other problems such as I reported in another thread here whereby aircraft that cause an 'Alert' to pop-up are not listed on the main screen and then fly 200 feet overhead a few moments latter?

Reg

landyman

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2009, 09:26:49 PM »
I've just connected my RB to my old PC to conduct some tests.  It's running 3.06 and not 2.01 used to make my previous posting.

It's my previous desktop also running XP, but it's cluttered with many programs and has a registry full of redundant stuff.  I intent to reformat the HD and install XP from CD.  Then it will become my RB only PC, but unfortunately has a wide screen, which implies a low height so the displayed list is rather short.

The program was running prior to connecting the black box (to confirm the dongle) and immediately the AirNav Systems advert with revolving radar image caught they eye - only thing moving!

It was rotating at full speed without any pauses.  Connecting the box and the pauses were frequent, as expected while the data set was filled.

I then removed the tick from the 'Process Hardware Flights' box and there was no perceived change in the rate of delays in the radar rotation.  I replaced the tick and again no perceived change.

I then in 'Preferences ¦ RadarBox' removed the tick in the 'Share Flight Data' box.  There was a very significant reduction ion delays in the rotating radar display.

Interesting.....

Reg.

Allocator

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2009, 09:49:48 PM »
Reg,

No time to read your extensive post in detail at the moment, but the only time I've ever had any issues with 'Share Data' selected and the RB software struggling was with a very early version of the software and an intermittent mobile 3G Broadband connection or with no Internet connection at all.

I have absolutely no slow-downs now with 'Share Data' selected on any of my laptops/PS's.

Off to bed now, I'll read this again tomorrow.

landyman

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2009, 09:59:36 PM »
Another aspect on these problems.  I understand that priority is given to local packets over internet packets.  So that the list and map display your data in preference to internet data.

Is the time of a packet important here?

I've just had an alert and noticed that the time given was in the future.  I have a radio controlled clock displaying UK time and another displaying German time (GMT+1).  These are always in sync and supported by GPSrs when ever I check.

As my old PC has not been switched on for a few days, it's clock is running fast.

The PC clock is used to date/time stamp my local data.  So the data I share will also have a wrong date/data stamp.  Presumably when shared it will also be incorrect.

Reg.

viking9

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2009, 11:07:29 PM »
I have now idea how or why the network should affect live flights but some time ago, many users reported that aircraft appearing on the network would not then be seen in MyFlights for some considerable time after they came in range of a station. Perhaps this could be part of the same phenomenon.

All I know is that I'm now regularly seeing more live aircraft at greater range and up to twice the number of messages/sec than I did when I had the network on. I have never, ever previously seen message counts of 400-600 messages/sec in the year I have had the RB. Previously my absolute max was 300 messages/sec.

For AirNav - I'm not getting confused by the number of aircraft on the map; I'm taking the number of ac shown in MyFlights. No probs with processing power here either - Intel Core2Quad Q8200 CPU at 2.33GHz; 4 GB DDR2 RAM @ 800MHz. 8Mb broadband running at 7 Mb most of the time.

Tom
Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk UK
15 miles SE of EGUN
32 miles SE of MAM > DIKAS track
http://www.viking9.co.uk

AirNav Support

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2009, 11:12:31 PM »
Ok lets try and put this to rest.

1.) Having the network on does NOT affect the local flights you pick up. Any local flights will always take priority over network. Messages from the RadarBox are received all the time where as the network is downloaded at a specific interval so they won't affect each other.

However if your machine is struggling to cope with the network by causing slow downs this means the software and your machine is playing catch up and weird results may occur as data is read but already timed out while being in the buffer. This should not happen on machines bought in the last few years, if it check your anti virus settings and use the latest beta. (Have a search on the forum for more tips)

2.) Sharing Data has no affect on the performance either. This is a very small process compared to the rest of the software and any indication that is causing an issue is totally wrong.

Reg,

Regarding your post about the network time, that shouldn't be a issue. We don't want to go in lots of detail about the network or the software process to protect both the network and software in terms of hack attempts. I hope you understand that.

Having said that a few of the answers to your questions are below:

RadarBox Hardware decoded the messages and sends to the software via USB.

Messages - Messages are quite small which are sent and lots are repetitions. The number in brackets is a compressed version of the messages which are actually important.

A lot of our customers and our test machines are quite old and they don't have an issue. You may have been unlucky with version 2 but the latest beta should mean those slow downs don't occur.

Hope that helps.
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MikeC

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2009, 08:44:29 AM »
Having the network on does NOT affect the local flights you pick up. Any local flights will always take priority over network. Messages from the RadarBox are received all the time where as the network is downloaded at a specific interval so they won't affect each other.

However if your machine is struggling to cope with the network by causing slow downs this means the software and your machine is playing catch up and weird results may occur as data is read but already timed out while being in the buffer. This should not happen on machines bought in the last few years.

A lot of our customers and our test machines are quite old and they don't have an issue. You may have been unlucky with version 2 but the latest beta should mean those slow downs don't occur.

Thanks.

Back to Tom's original point.  Are you suggesting that he is only seeing more local flights using Version 3.07 because he has a below spec PC?  If so, what is the minimum spec to run ANRB and see all the local flights when sharing, assuming no other software is running?

MrT

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2009, 09:31:36 AM »
Im running RB Beta 3.07 on my 4 year old Dell Inspirion 6000 Laptop. A lowly 1.6Ghz, 500Mb Ram, pretty average Intel graphics card and XP (service pack 3).

Works great. No problems.

It's not really handling huge amounts of data or graphics. (Try Flight Simulator for that).

Cheers,

Paul

« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 09:34:54 AM by MrT »

sterigia

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2009, 11:19:35 AM »
this not being my case i will control with my polar diagram when the olbia user logs on to see if he "steals" my flights.
ciao
frank
ciao.
frank

radarspotter10

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2009, 11:30:35 AM »
Im running RB Beta 3.07 on my 4 year old Dell Inspirion 6000 Laptop. A lowly 1.6Ghz, 500Mb Ram, pretty average Intel graphics card and XP (service pack 3).

Works great. No problems.

It's not really handling huge amounts of data or graphics. (Try Flight Simulator for that).

Cheers,

Paul


hi paul.S
Same here i have two laptops one small specs and the other i got new about 3 weeks ago and my home computer, my airnav works great on them all,  but i notice on this thread their one individual who is hell is bend on taking our airnav box down into the gutter, give us a break.
from pat getting fed up with his antics.

MrT

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Re: More live aircraft without network
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2009, 11:39:36 AM »
Hi Pat.

Yes, RB  runs just fine on my low spec machine.

I might buy a better, faster laptop one day. Hey, I might even upgrade to Windows 7 ??? Hmmm... then again, I probably won't!  :)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 11:46:24 AM by MrT »