Populating Untitled

[AirNav Support]

Here is an example:

Aircraft appears and its not in our database hence it looks up in the GAS Database and finds:

ABC123 - ABC Airline A319

That is saved to our database. (This stage is done to limit the requests send to GAS to prevent overloading)

A few months later the aircraft changes hand:

ABC123 - CAT Airlne A319.

A nice person sumbits the details to GAS and its updated on the GAS server.

--------------------------------------------------------------

This is where the issue lies and we dicussing the best way to pass the update through or to keep checking GAS for changes without overloading it.

[jgrloit]

If the Airlines as above use Flight ID's:-
ABC123   - Flights  XYZ123    Company DEF.
changes to
ABC123  -Flight ID  FGH123    Company  HIJ
It airline table is referenced as either a match  FGH NOT equate to DEF
or as a match, if possible,  FGH Equal HIJ   
and NOT equal to DEF - request update (new flag reqd in Xmission) from RB server.

HowXat??

[kdt1]

Airlines are mostly spot on for me, Private and corporate not even close

Airnav  untitled - untitled GLF4

GAS   3M - 3M GLF4

I am presently using a daily updated sqb file that has been
populated from GAS with AD and importing it into RB
for the untitled data.
That is the easiest fix for me right now, but expensive.

You guys owe me a Coffee MUG.

[ACW367]

KDT some other examples

A1F7E1 N226G B752 actual operator COMCO
Airliners Net: COMCO
GAS: L-3 Capital Llc
FAA Registry: L-3 Capital Llc

Therefore Airliners.net is the only one correct.

A9E708 N737WH B737 (BBJ) actual operator is Wayne Huizenga former owner of Miami dolphins.
Airliners Net: Untitled (Correct as it carries no titles or airline logo)
GAS: Bank Of America Na
FAA Registry: BANK OF AMERICA NA C/O SOUTHERN AIRCRAFT SVCS INC

In my opinion ANet remains the most accurate

A34F3A B312LA B763 Actual operator LAN Cargo or LANCO
Airliners Net: Lan Cargo or Untitled(Lanco) correctly for those that are still untitled and niot yet in the full new Lanco livery.
GAS: Bluebird Leasing Llc
FAA Registry: CERNICALO LEASING LLC

WOW Shocking Airliners net is still the most accurate. 

Others I can think of N1JN actual owner Jack Nicklaus, GAS shows the financial institution N1jn-v Llc.

KDT:
How expensive are you trying to make this for airnet. It appears you want logic that goes something like:
step 1: Check Airliners net, interpret contents of Airliners net flield, If name of airline or something similar use it, if not a current airline or operator name ignore
Step 2: Check GAS, interpret contents of GAS flield, If name of airline or something similar use it, if not a current airline or operator name ignore
Step 3: Identify nationality, find online database for that states registry somewhere on the net, interpret contents of states registry operator field using whatever format is used for that particular state of registry, If name of airline or something similar use it, if not a current airline or operator name ignore
Step 4: Undertake Google search to identify actual owner/operator. If name of airline or something similar use it.

Why are you so desparate to change the whole system for all of us from the very good one that is currently in place and try to introduce unneccesary steps into a great system that in the case of liveried aircraft identifies exactly the current operator. 

Your way would remove the details of the current airline operator in many cases or the fact that it is a corporate aircraft and as such carries no airline titles (I call that untitled). 

You want to replace this with data of the leasing companies and financial institutions that act as middle men in the corporate and airline world.  And cost Airnet thousands to pay licence fees for just about every air website database on the web to find exactly the correct details that YOU deem to be the one you want to show for a corporate aircraft.  If that is your wish then that is why Airnet thoughtfully included the manual update for you to put exactly what you want.

Regards
ACW367

[ACW367]

KDT The perfect example of why Airnet have it right by using Airliners net as the primary which details the livery/airline name physically carried on that aircraft. As opposed to GAS which details owner. I was desperately searching for this earlier.  You are still looking for some kind of other database that details operator or livery whichever better suits your need.

AA0701 N745VJ an US airways A319 logojet in Allegheny retro livery
Airliners net: US Airways (Allegheny Airlines)
GAS and FAA Registry: Wells Fargo Bank Northwest Na Trustee

;-)

[kdt1]

AC:

I just want a name instead of untitled very simple.

Untitled does nothing for me,

Good reply, some times less is more, Thanks

[jgrloit]

One Query on this for the FAA origin - how do they handle reregistrations and  Reuse of existing registrations as mentioned in previous messages?

While the registration is unique in the world this source seems valid.
Where the registration is NOT unique, ie purely numberic registrations - normally Military this source seems to generate errors.
In these cases the GAS type source is more correct as they use the ModeS as the key and that is unique worldwide.

[DaveReid]

One Query on this for the FAA origin - how do they handle reregistrations and  Reuse of existing registrations as mentioned in previous messages?

It depends on who you mean by "they".  If you mean the FAA, then they simply cancel a registration mark from one aircraft and it becomes available for re-use immediately on any other aircraft.  OTOH, if you mean how do AirNav (and Kinetic) handle this in their databases, the answer is that they aren't designed to cope with this situation.

While the registration is unique in the world this source seems valid.
Where the registration is NOT unique, ie purely numberic registrations - normally Military this source seems to generate errors.
In these cases the GAS type source is more correct as they use the ModeS as the key and that is unique worldwide.

The Mode S code (i.e. the ICAO 24-bit address) is only unique at a given point in time.  As above, for those countries that tie addresses algorithmically to registrations, a code will be re-used when a registration is re-used.

[jgrloit]

The Query ref FAA reuse was also about how do Airliners.net handle the reuse of registrations - IF that is to be seen as a primary data source for Operator and Aircraft Information.      Do they scrap ALL references to the previous aircraft, or are they retained, to possibly compromise that source af data?

Ref Duplicate registrations - Military - I would like the Mode-S to still be used as the ONLY data key, and the Photographic source to be ignored as GAF 5106 a C160D is often updated to a French Mirage!!!!   We know that this ONLY happend with Military Numberic registrations - so different update rules need to apply!

[DaveReid]

The Query ref FAA reuse was also about how do Airliners.net handle the reuse of registrations - IF that is to be seen as a primary data source for Operator and Aircraft Information.      Do they scrap ALL references to the previous aircraft, or are they retained, to possibly compromise that source af data?

That's easy to answer - airliners.net doesn't care how many aircraft a registration has bee (re-)used on.  If you do a registration search (or if RadarBox does one) on airliners.net it will find any aircraft that has used that reg.

For example www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N600J will find 7 photos of N600J:  two are the Gulfstream and 5 are the BAe125 (none, alas, of the JetStars).

Ref Duplicate registrations - Military - I would like the Mode-S to still be used as the ONLY data key, and the Photographic source to be ignored as GAF 5106 a C160D is often updated to a French Mirage!!!!   We know that this ONLY happend with Military Numberic registrations - so different update rules need to apply!

If that's really what RadarBox does - translates the Mode S code into a serial and then goes and updates the database based on whatever aircraft is/are found on airliners.net with that serial - then I agree, it's just plain stupid.  But I don't see why it would need to do that if the server is linked to GAS and it can simply do a lookup on the Mode S code ?

[jgrloit]

In previous messages a user has implied that Airliners.net is the more correct data source - as it gives Operators rather than 'owners'.
This may be valid for Commercials, but is it does NOT seem a valid source for Military, due the the Registration being used as the key and the numberic duplicates DO cause problems!!!!
How "Private" aircraft are processed is still a question for consideration.
Maybe AIRNAV could add an update flag for known Military Mode-S groups 'Y/N'?

[abrad41]

AirNav Support

[AirNav Support

AirNav Systems
Hero Member

Posts: 2020


     Re: Populating Untitled
« Reply #3 on: 09 April 2009, 20:22:17 » Quote 

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kdt1,

Firstly don't be rude. Let us explain:
The main Aircraft Database runs of the airliners photos and details and GAS details.

So you pick up an new aircraft:

- If its found in the online database it also looks up the aircraft image.
- If no details are found then no pic or very few details its likely no pic (hence no pic is marked in the database as way of saying recheck this aircraft detail as we have no details or limited last time)

If you don't want the database to recheck that aircraft and overwrite data then enter some text in LK field which will fool it thinking a picture is already there.

If you think it can be done in a better way we are happy to listen. No

If you don't want the database to recheck that aircraft and overwrite data then enter some text in LK field which will fool it thinking a picture is already there.

Just to let you know, this is not working as you say.

Just recently I have been filling in the LK field to stop it getting over written, done a populate this morning and it has over written the data I had inserted, with "Untitled".

Any chance of looking at this before the next release - as it drives you crazy when you are trying to keep records and makes a hell of a lot of work.

Cheers

[Brian]

AirNav Support,
Some of this information from this topic. I think should be added to this FAQ page.

Where does the aircraft registration data come from?
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=2688.0

[DaveReid]

What's needed is a flag in the NavData aircraft record which users can set to show that they have taken responsibility for editing a particular record and don't want their updates overwritten by the AirNav server, regardless of whether they have specified a photo link or not.

[NF2G]

I have to agree with Dave Reid on this one.

I have gathered a great deal of aircraft info - along with flight route info - in the course of monitoring ACARS on VHF.  None of my data are tied to hex codes because, before I owned a RB, I had no need or knowledge of them.

I would like to be able to use my own research as the primary source of aircraft and route info for RB without getting it overwritten or corrupted by external database errors.

With my ACARS software I can select something like "do not download database updates" and it leaves my edits alone.  Can we get something similar for RB2010?

73 de Dave, NF2G