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Author Topic: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?  (Read 21237 times)

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DaveReid

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2009, 11:42:44 AM »
I have been through Mylog and these are all aircraft with position data outside of my maximum polar range. By type.

ATP LX-WAL,SE-MAP + those already quoted
C650 D-CMPI
CL60 HB-IVS,XA-JVL
H25B VP-CLU below is a gif as this has spurious height info also
GLF5 00-0128,00-0129,01-0076,97-0401,99-0402,N522EE,N508P,N526EE,N531AF,N596GA,
N673P,N740SS,VP-BNL,VP-CES
FA10 F-GPGL

If it's any help, I've just run a quick-and-dirty analysis of these aircraft over the last 3 years (except XA-JVL, which I can't trace).

Out of 568 log reports, other than a handful of examples of the SBS/Challenger decoding bug, the maximum range I've had is 212nm.
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EGNXR

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2009, 05:16:16 PM »
Hello Dave, XA-JVL was a typo should be (0D0134 XA-JZL).
I must admit I was wrong about Watching ATP's the ones I saw last night certainly did not show up. I know I've seen G-MANH the rest must be a case of what I thought I saw:-)

I have seen others appearing in random places briefly ie over the North pole. I will endevour to get a screenshot next time I see it.

ALso witnessed GLF5 N225EE it was displaying route EGLF-EGPE although it was making the return journey. It was bouncing between Ontario and UK as it tracked down over Manchester to Oxford. Strange thing was as it began to decend its track became stable. If it was trying to mask its position why display valid route information? The other thing is the position data in mylog is correct for where I picked him up and lost him. I have a screen shot of him over wolverhampton.
Based in Derby 5Nm NW of EGNX

kdt1

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2009, 06:07:24 PM »
Its hard for us to confirm this either way unless someone wants to lease us there Gulfstream for a nice test run?

Are you prepared for that bill?

I have experienced gulfs transmitting the wrong positions in my area with the SBS, haven’t seen it yet with the RB as I think they have fix them. I do think it would be very dangerous not to mention illegal to transmit false positions.


CoastGuardJon

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2009, 08:36:53 PM »
I have experienced gulfs transmitting the wrong positions in my area with the SBS, haven’t seen it yet with the RB as I think they have fix them. I do think it would be very dangerous not to mention illegal to transmit false positions.

Virtually all UK Government authorities fall back on "Crown Indemnity", I am employed by 2 of the less "iffy" Agencies and see this used quite often to get around or create loopholes in the law! Doubtless, the US are probably even more liberal with their interpretation..................
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 08:38:24 PM by CoastGuardJon »
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jgrloit

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2009, 09:04:29 PM »
Having just looked through the rules on the NATS site - I find no mention of Positional requirements on the transmission under the required modes.

Nats Docs require Mode A or C with Altitude details from the pressure sensors.
Even Mode S excludes Positional requirements  _
ENR 1.6.2 gives details along with current Squawk codes.
So if position is NOT required is an invalid position illegal??
Based in Hexham - Tyne Valley 
Best view for RB is North of a line between EGNT and EGNC  - includes OTA and Spade, to EGPH above 7500ft.   Can be TRUE mobile with Mobile Broadband feed to Network.

DaveReid

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2009, 09:25:54 PM »
So if position is NOT required is an invalid position illegal??

We have no evidence that any aircraft are intentionally transmitting invalid positional data, in fact the only aircraft that consistently come up with spurious coordinates on both RadarBox and SBS are a handful of older 737s, and clearly the authorities couldn't care less about those.
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EGNXR

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2009, 10:06:06 PM »
G-BTPH on Network now over Burkina Faso? And in Formation with SE-MAP

There are several ATP'S on Network now 22:03pm
Based in Derby 5Nm NW of EGNX

DaveReid

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2009, 10:37:15 PM »
G-BTPH on Network now over Burkina Faso? And in Formation with SE-MAP

Hmmm, same issue as noted previously - both those ATPs are definitely non-ADS-B and shouldn't be plotting at all ...
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jgrloit

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2009, 10:54:58 PM »
Seems strange that these ATP's are always at either N12:00:00 by 0:00:00   or N24:00:00 by 00:00:00
Now 12 is 1100
   24 is 11000  in binary     could this indicate anything?
Based in Hexham - Tyne Valley 
Best view for RB is North of a line between EGNT and EGNC  - includes OTA and Spade, to EGPH above 7500ft.   Can be TRUE mobile with Mobile Broadband feed to Network.

EGNXR

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2009, 11:07:40 PM »
Thing is I've not been able to see them on my flights just Network. I spotted the first two at Gardermoen ENGM Norway SE-MAF and SE-MAH both are tracking normaly. Some one has a RB quite close to the airfield.
Based in Derby 5Nm NW of EGNX

AirNav Support

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2009, 11:14:14 PM »
Interesting, certainly a few ATPs are plotting correctly so its not an aircraft issue. Surprising though if the ones with weird positions if they are not ADS-B are plotting with position data.

Common sense would say if these aircraft of the same type are doing this that its a aircraft issue as if it was decoding issue it should in theory affect all aircraft.

The more information we get (this topic is helping),  we can try and get a more technical answer or fix if required.
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tarbat

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2009, 11:15:48 PM »
So if position is NOT required is an invalid position illegal??
Yes it is, for example, when flying above the North Sea within the Amsterdam flight information region.  From the end of this month, all aircraft flying below 3,000ft must provide accurate position information.

"To ensure the quality of the onboard position-information, especially in offshore applications where the navigational ground infrastructure is limited, the position-information must be based on input from a GNSS receiver certified against ETSO C129A (class C), ETSO C145 or ETSO C146. It is recommended to have a direct interface between the onboard GNSS receiver and the mode S transponder in order to minimise onboard data latencies."

Canonjohns40D

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2009, 08:39:54 PM »
Hi anyone noticed this one Alafia Jet TYSAM000 BAE125 showing over SE Ireland but purple rain running down to South Atlantic area? Possibly heading NW still showing over southern Ireland.

John
Update still over Southern Ireland purple rain showing out to Artic Ocean now.

Further update now several lines into USA still showing over Southern Ireland on Map

Presently 20.49 showing east of Enniskillen Northern Ireland.
Now 20.57 approaching Portrush Northern ireland just outside my area of coverage.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:21:51 PM by Canonjohns40D »
Hi I'm John... and I'm a Radarbox User. I'm based in Bangor Co Down Northern Ireland.

EGNXR

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2009, 11:06:29 PM »
Tonights unstable tracks on network
CL60 N300TW,C-GQBQ,N453GS,N800YB,C-GCNR
GLF5 N405LM,N85V,99-0402
FA50 N411GC

N800YB and N405LM Tracked normaly then started bouncing then went stable again.
Based in Derby 5Nm NW of EGNX

EGNXR

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Re: What Did I Pickup 280nm Out?
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2009, 08:46:59 PM »
Another Purple rain offender EC-KPP Falcon 100

So is it an airnav problem?
A mode-S - GPS problem?
or a deliberate act?

We have several ATP'S that are not supposed to be ADS-B but show as being in Mylog
A rogue B747 in the middle of the ocean
Several GLF5's
Several Challengers
2 x Falcon 10
1 x Falcon 50
3 x H25B all giving purple rain this week
Based in Derby 5Nm NW of EGNX