findings so far

[tarbat]

Theo, if you want a real-time network, then Planeplotter is close, with it's updates every 60 seconds, and with most Planeplotter sharers providing real-time data from their SBS-1 (with hacked software).  And Planeplotter works with Radarbox.

One of the main reasons I sold my SBS-1 was the lack of a network (MapModeS).  I can't see how selecting the SBS-1 gives you a better real-time network.

With a Radarbox, I have the benefits of the great Airnav software, real-time local aircraft, but can still make use of all those SBS-1 users sharing their real-time data on the Planeplotter network.

Although I find the 5-minute delay on the Radarbox network is acceptable for most long-distance tracking.

[Fenris]

I can't see how selecting the SBS-1 gives you a better real-time network.

There's also the matter of development too, it seems that SBS-1 is moribund software-wise and despite the SBS-1e it doesn't look like hardware development has moved very far in the 3.5 years since SBS-1 appeared. I don't want to knock the competition in that way, but you need to consider what your options for improving the experience will be.

Since the actual cost of the hardware is a lot less than the price you pay for the product, consider that the extra money pays for the excellent software you want together with future development of the same software. In the RB case, Airnav have provided that and are expected to continue to do so. MapModeS has not appeared, and is unlikely to do so.

[CoastGuardJon]

Personal opinion only, what difference does a 5 min. delay make when the a/c is outside of very local airspace, unless you've not no direct signal reception, and you're looking to see what's coming!    You pays your money, you takes your choice................

[Theo]

Personal opinion only, what difference does a 5 min. delay make when the a/c is outside of very local airspace, unless you've not no direct signal reception, and you're looking to see what's coming!    You pays your money, you takes your choice................

If i look at the discription of youre hardware (nrd 545/icom etc.) i asume you have this devices not for listening to any previous recorderd conversations, you wanna know whats going on at that moment, (you know the reason why amateurs use a repeater?)
with a delay it is if you looking in the past.
See if i kan explain.
I live in the netherlands, if i can track a plane thats leaving schiphol, i would like to know when its flying over my town, if the data is 5 min. to late i'll never see the a.c because in 5 min it is already past my home town (for holland isn't that big).
its very simple i wanna know what is going on at this moment, not what was going on 5 min. ago.
Iff only airnav had the option of realtime networking then we have not hat this discussion ;-)

@fernis.
For as far as security reasons it don't make any sense to me.
what is the differince between live footage when owning a box, and watching realtime network traffic for reg. users, what makes watching realtime network a higher security risck then when you own such a device?
Its the same as you say 2 guns are more dangerous in the hands of a fool then 1 gun.

[tarbat]

I live in the netherlands, if i can track a plane thats leaving schiphol, i would like to know when its flying over my town, if the data is 5 min. to late i'll never see the a.c because in 5 min it is already past my home town (for holland isn't that big).

But it will be real-time in Radarbox, if you're within range (approx 200nm) of the aircraft.  It's only the network that is 5-min delayed, all aircraft received by your Radarbox are live, real-time.

[Fenris]

@fenris.
For as far as security reasons it don't make any sense to me.
what is the differince between live footage when owning a box, and watching realtime network traffic for reg. users, what makes watching realtime network a higher security risck then when you own such a device?

It makes no sense to me either, but when the people that disagree with you have the resources of a major government and can use the law to do whatever they want one must tread carefully. I hope that one day the people who worry about this can be convinced that their concerns are actually baseless and non-delayed network flight tracking can become legal.

I think you need to think carefully about this, maybe the Dutch government is more liberal than in the UK, but if they are asked to do something about this issue, they might do so. I see that LiveATCBox is based in Holland, remember that international law enforcement exists. And we're both in the EU, so there is cooperation between the LEAs.

And in case you're in any doubt, this sort of thing is like an itch I can't scratch to me, I hate the distortion of reality much like you do and I intensely dislike being told I can't do what I like by people who may well not have really analysed the risks and hence insist on unnecessary precautions.

Sadly, wishing does not make it so.

[viking9]

I can't see the authorities doing anything. Reception of any radio signal by anyone not licensed to receive it is unlawful. That includes airband frequencies and must also include ADS-B, Mode S and other SSR signals. Go to any airshow and you will find hundreds of people using airband scanners. Go to lots of airfields and you will see a fair number of people using SBS and ANRB. The authorities know that it is (a) harmless and (b) impossible to police it, so they turn a blind eye to it. That way they can devote their energies to tracking down the scum that put lives at risk by broadcasting on those frequencies illegally.

[Theo]

But it will be real-time in Radarbox, if you're within range (approx 200nm) of the aircraft.  It's only the network that is 5-min delayed, all aircraft received by your Radarbox are live, real-time.

I know you receive by realtime on youre own box, but if youre receive a limitid signal even with a outside antenna (and i know my receiving conditions because i was listening for a longtime to shortwave/amateurs, scanners etc).
And you want to get the most out of youre box, then its a great help if you can receive more thru a network in realtime.
Again i have no interest in what was going on 5 min ago.
When you depending on a network to practice youre hobby, would you not be glad if its without a delay.

question..Have you seen that beatifull goal....answer..no still waiting for the picture my provider desided to transmit with a delay, but thanks anyway now i know someone has scored a goal 0‘’0

[nortonbeak]

Theo

You have made a strong point about the five minute network delay of the Arbie.

Please remember that there is NO NETWORK, delayed or not with Sibsie.

[viking9]

Please remember that there is NO NETWORK, delayed or not with Sibsie.

True, if you don't count PlanePlotter.

[besty]

You can use planeplotter from both RB and SBS, but of the boxes the RB is the more user friendly and complete.  So if you were wanting to use planeplotter you'd still be better off with the RB.

I've had both units and chose the RB.

[Theo]

You can use planeplotter from both RB and SBS, but of the boxes the RB is the more user friendly and complete.  So if you were wanting to use planeplotter you'd still be better off with the RB.

I've had both units and chose the RB.

I agree, out of the box the RB software looks better (more option's etc.etc.)
But that's not the point, the point is what are the possibility's regarding the funcionatlity on realtime.
Its very simple airnav ruled out the possibility for using the network in realtime while the competition has a option to do that (illigal or not).
But the more i read on this site the more i'm confinced that the argument of security isn't the real reason for the delay.
It is not that hard to figure out what's going to happend when it was possible to get realtime network, one of the things is that people go stream there data on website's and community's.
Airnav know's that there is almost no interest in delayed data (beside's the users that have the boxfor they can wtach realtime also).
So if people want to watch live they must have the box.
That's a good reason to keep it this way.
Personly i think that airnav is affraid when make networking possible realtime people wont buy the box, i think it will increase the sale of it.
When i show friends/family that there is a box for receiving this kind of data and dissplay it on youre monitor, they all say the same thing when telling that the network isn't realtime, they all say What's the use of it then.........
Ask youreself, what if you do not have the radarbox and you only can watch airtraffic on a network with a delay, how long wil you monitoring such a site.
In another topic i was refuring to the site atcbox, there you can see that there is almost no interest for people to watch if it is delayed, on a busy day there are no more then 3 a 4 users that watch the delayed streams as you can see in the screenshot (note that only the streams Europe_east and Europe-West are delayed) all the others are realtime.


But enough said no realtime, no airnav.......

[tarbat]

Theo, I'm still confused.  You seem to be saying that the SBS-1 has a real-time network.  Can you give some more details about how to access the SBS-1 real-time network - I thought the MapModeS function had been cancelled.

I would agree, that if your main requirement is a real-time network, then Radarbox is not for you.  In fact, you probably don't need to buy any hardware, just carry on using atcbox.

EDIT:  The Airnav Radarbox network covers the whole world, whereas atcbox only covers a few locations.  I'll stick with the Radarbox network for 5-min delayed, global coverage.  And Planeplotter for real-time, European coverage.

[Allocator]

Theo,

You should have been around in the early days of the SBS-1 if you think that the whole Network data issue and the 5 minute delay is a new subject.  Also, if you think that the 5 minute delay is a clever marketing plan by AirNav to corner the market, then take a look at this thread on the Kinetic forum.  Why do you think that Kinetic failed to deliver live MapModeS data - do you think that it was the technical difficulties, or do you think, as stated by the CEO of Kinetic, that they were afraid of being closed down?

A quote from Kinetic:

On a final note, let me warn users of the following. Our security services are enabled to protect us by whatever means suit the risks we are continually exposed to. If SBS-1 users want to test their resolve they will find that access to such services as openatc.com will be logged and prosecution, confiscation and fines MAY result. If we left MapModeS alone then rest assured it was for good reason.

In fact, here's a good thread on the "other" forum - this was following the launch of the OpenATC website!

http://www.kinetic-avionics.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2201&start=0

KineticDavid is the CEO of Kinetic Avionics.  Note the date, 30th August 2006 and onwards.

Chaps, this whole live data network issue is old news.

[tarbat]

Theo, at this moment, I have both:
860 aircraft being shared mostly real-time on Planeplotter.
761 aircraft being shared, 5-min delayed, on the Radarbox network.

I use a Radarbox, not an SBS-1, and see all the real-time aircraft I need.  Seems a perfect solution to me.