Live reception/network reception - what happens at the join?

[Allocator]

Okay now tracking KLM686 over Cheshire 11:27

Showing OK on Live Flight Tracker.  Mexico to Amsterdam at FL390:

http://www.ruyton.demon.co.uk/html/live_flight_tracker.html

[Deadcalm]

KLM686 seems to have downloaded an interesting photo - some sort of control tower!!

DC

[Blackthorn]

Okay now tracking KLM686 over Cheshire 11:27

Showing OK on Live Flight Tracker.  Mexico to Amsterdam at FL390:

http://www.ruyton.demon.co.uk/html/live_flight_tracker.html

11:43 somthing tells me it will not reappear unless I switch off the local flights again but I will leave it off just to confirm that.

[Blackthorn]

11:48 and still not reappeared, I have just realised the wider implications of this problem. All aircraft I track are lost from the map when out of range.

[Blackthorn]

It had not shown by 11:53 so I switched off local, then my network flights increased from 830 to 893 and KLM686 appeared half way over the North Sea.

[Deadcalm]

Which is more or less my problem too.  So the switching on and off of Hardware Flights has a bearing on whether or not one continues to receive network targets, and also whether or not some routes are displayed.

DC

[AirNav Support]

Ok, lets explain a few points:

1.) Obviously if you turn of process hardware it clears the memory table of the all the flights you have received locally. Hence all the network flights on the network will be shown unless at the moment you get a signal locally from one of them and in which case it takes precedent.

2.) Customers saying the flights never appear on the network after being in local are simply not waiting long enough or the area the aircraft is going into is not covered by anyone else.

Let me explain why it takes longer than 5 minutes and why I wrote in my first message in "theory" (I can't explain in too much detail as its a security risk for our network)

- RadarBox will use timestamps for when the aircraft was last received and then only display network tracks for that aircraft after the last received timestamp. However due to time differences in all our computers there may be a difference of a few minutes extra either way.

- As the network does not get data sent to it every second for an aircraft there will be a delay in new data received from other sources (especially if its only being picked up by another customer). As well as you the network is downloaded every 30 seconds. This could add again a few minutes at a max.

- Lastly the aircraft could just be going through a patch of area where there is no reception.

All in all its not easy to get the transition right as there is lots of factors and program wise its a difficult but the aircraft do appear after the transition but may take longer than the 5-6 minutes in theory. Hope that helps.

[Blackthorn]

I have since tracked two other flights and waited until the flights arrived at their destination Schipol using flighttracker and they did still not reappear on the Network flights after losing them locally.

[Deadcalm]

"...2.) Customers saying the flights never appear on the network after being in local are simply not waiting long enough or the area the aircraft is going into is not covered by anyone else..."

So how long is long enough?  20 - 30 minutes (or not at all) is obviously unacceptable.  Also, if by the simple expedient of switching on and off Hardware one can resurrect the target aircraft from being invisible, clearly it was being tracked all the time - so presumably it should be showing on screen without having to keep switching something on and off continually.  I can assure you that when I suggest traffic disappears from "Live", and fails to reappear as "Network", (where there is otherwise plenty of network activity) it is precisely because that is what is happening.

I sincerely hope you are not saying that this is not an issue, and consequently no fix will be available.

DC

[Blackthorn]

if by the simple expedient of switching on and off Hardware one can resurrect the target aircraft from being invisible, clearly it was being tracked all the time - so presumably it should be showing on screen without having to keep switching something on and off continually. 
DC

I agree DC there is a problem here.

[AirNav Support]

The quote above from DC is not correct. Its more complex than that.

example you have local flights being picked up and network on:

1.) BAW001 is in range and is picked up locally
2.) Network download also contains BAW001 (5 minutes behind its location) but this ignored.

now as soon as BAW001 is out of range locally you can turn off hardware flights and it will clear the memory. Therefore it will show BAW001 from the network but it will be 5 minutes behind and be placed well in your range.

The hard part as we say is determing when you have lost contact and when the 5 minute delayed data has caught up and when safely to now allow the network data to be shown.

Its not as simple as you suggest as just turning of the hardware flights but complex.

[Blackthorn]

The quote above from DC is not correct. Its more complex than that.

example you have local flights being picked up and network on:

1.) BAW001 is in range and is picked up locally
2.) Network download also contains BAW001 (5 minutes behind its location) but this ignored.

now as soon as BAW001 is out of range locally you can turn off hardware flights and it will clear the memory. Therefore it will show BAW001 from the network but it will be 5 minutes behind and be placed well in your range.

The hard part as we say is determing when you have lost contact and when the 5 minute delayed data has caught up and when safely to now allow the network data to be shown.

Its not as simple as you suggest as just turning of the hardware flights but complex.

Please explain why BAW001 never shows up in network even 20 mins later yet others can see it?

[AirNav Support]

We are not sure why you are experiencing certain issues, what is your pc time set to and is it considerbly out of sync? Also what are your timeout settings?

[Deadcalm]

Airnav, if that's your answer, then I'm afraid it's meaningless gobbledygook to me.

I want to know why, in France, where I am receiving live targets up to about 200 nm, when my live targets leave my range they don't acquire network status when in range of another receiver, and display on my map accordingly.  If I am following a particular flight, and it exits my range, I would expect to see it when it came within range of another receiver on the network without having to click a feature every five minutes to see if it appears, I've got better things to do.  I was under the impression that this was part and parcel of the RadarBox package.

It's quite reasonable to expect to continue to automatically monitor a flight which has passed into network traffic, albeit with the 5 minute delay.  That, I thought, was the whole point of the system.

If it won't do that, then come clean and admit it.  This problem has been reported ad infinitum on this forum, and you've always given the impression that it's a known issue that is in the throes of being addressed.  Now it seems, it may always be thus.  I for one, am a tad disappointed if this is the case - it's daft to be expected to keep manually clicking buttons to see if a programme is performing reliably or not.

And kindly desist from describing everything I say as either incorrect, or a lie - quotes are cut and pasted, not invented.  I am well able to make my own observations, and I thought this was the place to air them.  I report what I see, and as a customer I expect a little empathy from you.

Now, once and for all, is this a fault or a "feature".  If it's a fault (and several of us seem to think it may well be), will you fix it, or not?  I apologise if I appear forthright and blunt, but I really can't be doing with all this shillyshallying around every time a sensitive issue involving this software rears it's head.

DC

[tarbat]

After some extensive testing this afternoon, I can also confirm that I now see the same bahaviour on some aircraft.  The aircraft doesn't appear in the Network tab even after waiting 30 minutes.  Un-check the hardware flights box, and the aircraft then appears.