Loganair aircraft - Flight ID Missing

[tarbat]

Could it be a useful suggestion to let tarbat beta test (if willing) these patches.........?

Ready and willing!!  I just wish I'd spotted this bug in previous beta-testing, I've really only got myself to blame :(

[HMN851X]

Hi all I live at the end of the runway at Ronaldsway Isle of Man and never get any Flybe or Eastern VLM or Manx2 flight numbers yet my SBS-1 box picks them up BUT.....NPT521 and NPT522 always ping which are ATP, but do not track, yet a West air ATP departed the other day and tracked but no flight Number was showing but again on SBS both were showen!!!!!

[CoastGuardJon]

Ready and willing!!  I just wish I'd spotted this bug in previous beta-testing, I've really only got myself to blame :(

I just had a feeling you'd be ready, willing and able!

[HMN851X]

any idea how long befor the patch will be ready?

[AirNav Development]

We already have a to-do list for V2.1 with all the reported bugs to be corrected. Anyway we cannot yet give an estimate of when this new version will start beta-testing/be released.

[tarbat]

Does anyone have any idea why this doesn't work in RB?  Does anyone know which ModeS frame is used to transmit the Flight ID on these aircraft types?

In the last hour I've had all the following local aircraft with missing Flight IDs, whereas the SBS-1 and Planeplotter are displaying these FlightIDs okay:

 Reg   FlightID
F-HBXA  RAE557
G-LGNH  LOG83LP
G-JEDL  BEE332
G-SASC  GMA091
G-JECI  BEE324V
G-LGNA  LOG60HE
G-LGNK  LOG24FJ
G-CDKB  EZE64Y
G-ECOP  BEE118

Just trying to help Airnav diagnose the problem.

EDIT:  Found reference to an 08h message type format, which returns the Flight ID.  Format is a bit strange, as it only uses 6 bits for each character of the FlightID.  So, if the FlightID is, say, LOG8925I, how does this get put into 8x6 bits?

And DF20 also returns FlightID, according to http://www.ukintpress-conferences.com/conf/aero04/pres/dawson.pdf

[jgrloit]

Compressed ASCII  - I suspect that you have 6 Bytes of 8 bits as space or  8 ICL Octal characters.   Each Octal Character can hold an ASCII character.
If needed I will look out the OCTAL and ASCII Character sets.

[jgrloit]

The Logic to Read the 4 characters from 3 Bytes includes:-
copy Character 1   Divide by 4 -> first Character
Take previous result X 4 Subtract from Char 1, multiply by 16 - hold
Take Char 2 divide by 16 add to Hold -> Second Character
Take Char 2 divide by 16, Multiply result by 16 subtract from Char 2 Multiply bu 4 - Hold
Take Char 3 divide by 64 add to hold - Third Character
Take Char 3 Divide by 64, Multiply by 64 subtract from Char 3 - Forth Character.
Repeat for second group.
Compare output with Character sets.   Probably ASCII.

[jgrloit]

The ASCII codes are listed from page 54 onwards in the following PDF from IBM

http://publibfp.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/dz9ar900.pdf

[WAL 2T]

It does seem airframe specific in many cases.

Anyone ever seen a Citation or a Falcon with a FID? not just the Netjets ones but those of any operator. Same situation with ERJs and CRJs.

They FlyBe Dash 8 Q400's never have an id but the South Western Dash 8-300s always do, although this is essentially a completely different aircraft.

The only notable exception I can think of is the KC135R: some of them do actually have their FID resolved, eg: 60-0351, 62-3519, 58-0036, 63-8008, 63-8879.

[tarbat]

It does seem airframe specific in many cases.

Agreed.  I currently have a DHC-8-311 showing FlightID (WIF0415), but a DHC-8-402Q with no FlightID (but does show in Planeplotter as BEE644L).

What Airnav need to know to fix this bug is what ModeS frames or messages are different about these aircraft.  Without this information, I don't think they'll be able to fix it.

Anyone with knowledge of how the SBS-1 manages to see these FlightIDs care to help ;)

[jgrloit]

Interesting complication on the decode front:-
2 Jetstream 41's showing on box, with same Squawk difference in Mode-S is 8 ie 1 bit looks from the timestamps as though the Mode-S is being decoded differently at different times.  - wonder if this could be an indication of other decode problems, including with the FlightID??   - Airnav?
Update   Aircraft are 40098F, 400897  and now 400983 is joining them again??
  Errors in two bits within the Mode-S!!!!

[AirNav Support]

Interesting complication on the decode front:-
2 Jetstream 41's showing on box, with same Squawk difference in Mode-S is 8 ie 1 bit looks from the timestamps as though the Mode-S is being decoded differently at different times.  - wonder if this could be an indication of other decode problems, including with the FlightID??   - Airnav?

Sorry can you explain that again?

[AirNav Development]

We are happy to announce that this problem has just been corrected for V2.10.

[tarbat]

Yes, happy to confirm three FlightIDs seen in just the first 10 minutes of testing:
- HWY3Q on Highland Airways.
- LOG30HM & LOG57HB on Loganair.

Detected in the ES of DF20 (altitude) and DF21 (squawk) frames.  Will test throughout today to confirm full coverage of the missing FlightIDs.  Well done Airnav!!

Also from testing it would appear that the few military FlightIDs that we already see in RB 2009 are transmitted in the DF17 frames.

EDIT: 30 minutes of testing has provided 14 new FlightIDs across a range of operators and airframes (all in DF20 and DF21 frames):
ACA844, BGT21, EIN39C, EZY6905, HWY3Q, LOG14QJ, LOG30HM, LOG57HB, LOG81LE, NWA053, NWA39, QID68, RYR813, TCX69L