Routes

[AirNav Support]

Did you have the network on as well?

[Deadcalm]

Yes.

DC

[AirNav Support]

Hi Deadcalm,

The bug is "If an aircraft is on the network first it will show no route and once its transfers to local flights if will continue to show no route"

If you switch off the network and restart RB with the network off you should see 99% of the UK routes. Have a go and trying this.

We are aware of the bug and we need to force the network to look up using the online database and a software update to check local database once its transfers to local picked up flights.

I think I am right in saying our developer is in contact with you and hopefully soon you should have beta with that software update.

[DazrahT]

Cheers for that AirNav Support, thought it was me going mad, turning off Network and then restarting RB is now showing a lot more flight routes than it was before turning network off.

Is there going to be a release to resolve this problem permanently?

Daz

[AirNav Support]

Yes there will be release. We have said that a few times but I guess some people don't believe it :)

[DazrahT]

No probs, being a Newbie RB User, not been on the forum that long, so may have missed any previous messages regarding Patches/Releases.

[Deadcalm]

Airnav, I accept that there is SOME improvement (I was already aware of, and have used this workaround), but again nowhere near the percentages you quote.  I will await the new beta version with a fix for this problem, with interest.

DC

[AirNav Support]

Deadcalm,

I am sure we compare percentages all day with your self :)

But proof is in the pudding as they say. The RadarBox in london is running the same version as yours except the network is on and view on that shows nearly all the flights with routes.

http://www.akzah.com/blog/static.php?page=radarboxLondon

The routes which are not appearing are ones which are inter Europe (not going through UK airspace) or ones with unsual route mappings such as Thomas Cook flights.

[testmonkey]

The routes which are not appearing are ones which are inter Europe (not going through UK airspace) or ones with unsual route mappings such as Thomas Cook flights.

Hi Support,

I'd be interested to know what qualifies Thomas Cook flights as 'unusual route mappings'. As you're no doubt aware I've posted a fairly comprehensive list of TCX flight ID's and would be interested to know the technical problems they cause. Their flight ID's match exactly the flight no's they use for passengers so from on outsiders perspective they look like straightforward look-ups. An insight into the technical problems they cause may help me with decoding some of the other airlines we are currently missing.

Cheers.

[AirNav Support]

Good question tesmonkey.

This is for the route online database company to answer :)

I suspect (don't quote us on this) that there is usually a lookup table from the IDs that have routes that passengers see and the ones that the ATC have and they might not have them. Having said that some TCX flights do appear.

The whole routes database in itself is a large project and its best we let them deal with it and we are fowarding any issues we note.

[testmonkey]

Well I know of at least one online routes look-up service that took a copy of my TCX list to add to their data so I can assume it's not them that you're using :)

[Deadcalm]

"But proof is in the pudding as they say"  Not in MY pudding, it's not...

Firstly, the area covered in your site is a fraction of the size of mine, with (when I looked) only 17 aircraft on view - hardly a comparison.

Secondly, you appear to have missed the point that not all RadarBox users are going to be based in London, and will be interested in routes pertaining to flights in THEIR territory.

Thirdly the comment about routes being "Inter Europe" and not going through UK airspace is nonsense.  The aircraft I am particularly interested (as I have already mentioned) certainly DO fly through UK airspace.  It also fails to explain why many of those foreign "Inter Europe" flights DO display a route (Like Veuling, CSA, Transavia, etc.).  It's just inconsistent.

And lastly, in what way do Thomas Cook flights have "unusual" flight mappings?  And does this also apply to Thompson, Easyjet, Ryanair, etc.?

It's good to indulge in healthy discussion, but please refrain from making generalised statements which are wide open to examination.  We all know that the product is good, but please accept is isn't yet all things to all users and those of us who have a point to make do so in expectation of improvement.  There is no need to be so defensive.

DC

[AirNav Support]

We weren't being defensive though we found it interesting you knew about the bug but uploaded the picture with the network just to create maximum impact.
We have acknowledged the issue in about half dozens topics on routes so far and explained our source data before but we will explain it again:

1.) Our source has details of Flightplans in Europe (however only UK airspace is fully correct) the other areas might be incorrect or missing hence we only mention UK airspace but its possible you get other routes as well.

2.) We have never set out to create a online route database which is going to cover the world. Why? Because its a massive and expensive task in itself. The routes are always changing so we cannot use static data, we need an actual live feed either from the airlines or a specific ATC centre. As you can imagine with that in mind we are now stepping into Professional Customer territory here and cost. Instead we have chosen to do our best in getting as many routes as possible and using this source which is expanding.

3.) Flight Mappings are example EZY123 might be listed as EGLL to EGKK and that is the flight plan data that our source has but the Flight ID over ADS-B is EZY123Y. Hence we need a mapping before we look up in the online source to change from 123 to 123Y (easy example some are complex). Most of the EZY and RYN flights should be shown as they have these setup. Unfournately airlines have a habit of changing these mappings and they are not always static causing extra pain. Some online databases convert the mapping anyway and we are hoping they can do this for us rather than us getting involved in this.

Overall you must understand that if you want 100% routes across the world then the system at the moment does not exist even for a Professional.

Hope that gives you a better insight, we our selves use RB and would love to have all the information as like a real Flight Dispatcher but we also know the issues around it all.

[DaveReid]

3.) Flight Mappings are example EZY123 might be listed as EGLL to EGKK and that is the flight plan data that our source has but the Flight ID over ADS-B is EZY123Y. Hence we need a mapping before we look up in the online source to change from 123 to 123Y (easy example some are complex).

That's not a good example.  Airlines use alphanumeric callsigns when Eurocontrol have advised them that the numeric callsign (i.e. timetable flight number) ould potentially cause confusion with other scheduled flights in the same area at the same time.  The scope for confusion is minimised by substituting alpha characters for one or more of the digits of the original flight number.

Simply adding a letter to the end of a flight number, as in your example, isn't how it's normally done in my experience, as that would only partially resolve the potential for confusion between, say, EZY123Y and AFR123.

HTH
Dave

[AirNav Support]

Apologies my example was poor, Thanks Dave.