Routes

[tarbat]

I still find the only reliable, automated, way of getting accurate route data is to:
1. Use Planeplotter, reading data from the ANRB recorder file.
2. Use FD6 to do route lookups from Planeplotter.
3. Daily, export new routes from FD6 and import into the routes table in ANRB, inserting new routes and over-writing the erroneous routes already in the table.

[Wayne]

Yes but my issue is that on occasions the values in the routes table are not being read be they existing table entries or entries added since 2009 by RB itself. Yesterday a flight EGNM-LEMH, added by RB as the CH field was populated was displaying on the map as LEIB-ENGM.

Today I have seen AMC139 displaying as LMML-EGCC, RYR5GC displaying EIDW-EGCC when they both should have been the other way around and both were added previously by RB as denoted by the entry in the CH attribute.

Maybe the information on the server it looks up is wrong.

Now it's not a huge problem to me but I what I find confusing is that once a route has been noted and stored in the table, what stops RB from reading the table entry and displaying the right information it has previously recorded. Both the RYR and AMC flights I saw today were correct in the table (and had CH entries) so what is over-riding them being looked up and displayed correctly the next time they are picked up ?

[Deadcalm]

I've been unhappy with the routes system for a long time,  I can't readily put my finger on it, as I'm no database expert, but there certainly seems to be something fundamentally flawed about the whole thing.

I hope it can be sorted out soon.

DC

[AirNav Support]

As the route data comes from another source (not us) which is dynamic and changing dependent on filed routes any such issue with the routes being incorrect we pass on to them.

While we won't say there name they are quite large and well known on the Internet so hopefully any issue there end will be rectified.

Unfournately as am I sure you are all aware getting route data and look ups is far from child's play. Even Flight Dispatcher programs in ATCs centers have issues with this.

Just to bring this back, even Professionals are amazed by the data and amount of details on view in RadarBox as some of there systems still don't have them :)

[Deadcalm]

Sorry, professionals are what?

DC

[AirNav Support]

Changed the word, Sunday issues :)

[Wayne]

Support

I am with you all the way on this but this doesn't explain why stored and correct information is not re-displayed on next contact. I'm no database expert either but in these examples the data has been fetched correctly from a server (or so I assume as I haven't keyed the info and the the CH date is populated) and is there to be seen in the routes table when interrogated.

Where I get lost is why on the next intercept of the same flight on the same route doesn't do a read of the table routes and display what it finds. In the EGNM-LEMH scenario, where on earth did LEIB come from ?  The crew don't key it and the table held correct information.

Maybe it's one of those things !

[John Racars]

Hi All en AirNav Support,

To be honest: it looks AirNav is busy to repair their routedatabase. This afternoon I was happy to see that BAW7 now have the correct information. It is EGLL-RJAA now.

[Wayne]

If you have the time take a look at SHT9P as it comes into your area. It's really EGPH-EGLL and thats what routes says but the screen clearly shows it as EGLL-EGPH.

I'll shut up now !

[AirNav Development]

We have already explained this route problem (that BTW happens to less than 1% of them). It is related to the provider from where we get the routes from. we are still waiting for them to correct this situation.

[tarbat]

I've checked to see what FD6 gets for SHT9P, and on 19th August it came up with EGPH-EGLL.

So Airnav, can you try using the 3 lookup services that FD6 uses.  As in my replies to Andre on 11/7 and 19/8, you'll need to use all three to get reliable results:
1. flytecomm
2. flightstats.com
3. flightaware.com

Or even see if Dave Reid will let you use his route lookup service at http://www.flightroutelookup.com/FlightRoute/

[AirNav Support]

Easy said then done Tarbat.

Unlike some addon software we cannot just poll each website for information and gather it (I am sure you know why). We would need to reach an agreement with them which is costly and also you might be aware some of those are our competitors in other software we sell.

[tarbat]

Yes, I do inderstand Airnav's problem in this.  But you need to manage people's expectations.  In my opinion, unless you can use a range of route lookup services, it will never be 100% accurate.

Far better that Airnav do a single lookup for each route, rather than the SBS1/FD6 approach where every single user does a route lookup.

[DaveReid]

Or even see if Dave Reid will let you use his route lookup service at http://www.flightroutelookup.com/FlightRoute/

FlightRouteLookup.com is open to all.

  <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
  <Flight>
  <FlightNumber>SHT9P</FlightNumber>
  <Callsign>Shuttle 9P</Callsign>
  <Leg>
  <Origin>
  <ICAOCode>EGPH</ICAOCode>
  <IATACode>EDI</IATACode>
  <AirportName>EDINBURGH/TURNHOUSE</AirportName>
  <Country>UNITED KINGDOM</Country>
  </Origin>
  <Destination>
  <ICAOCode>EGLL</ICAOCode>
  <IATACode>LHR</IATACode>
  <AirportName>LONDON/HEATHROW</AirportName>
  <Country>UNITED KINGDOM</Country>
  </Destination>
  <GCDistanceNM>288</GCDistanceNM>
  <DistanceFromOriginNM>251</DistanceFromOriginNM>
  <DistanceFromDestinationNM>38</DistanceFromDestinationNM>
  </Leg>
  </Flight>

[AirNav Support]

Yes but this is a customer won't pay extra but wants more situation :)

Without giving too much away we are using one of the biggest online route databases out there so it should be pretty much accurate. If there are any faults in the routes it would be affecting there business as well so we hope any issues will be rectified soon.

However for us to join forces with others we would then certainly have to up some of the costs. Even if we did the single look up without an agreement we would risking a lot and its risk we will not be willing to take.

DaveReid - we may be contact with you if the aboves database is not rectified.

Just to clarify I am sure we are right in saying this is not happening to all flights but less than 5% are affected.