Database Explorer advice

[Marpleman]

Rich

GAS have a page on all the official registers that they've come across: http://www.gatwickaviationsociety.org.uk/registers_official.asp

Hope that helps

Rod

Cheers Dave

Appreciate your assistance as ever

Rich

[RodBearden]

Or Rod, as I'm often called ;-)

Dave Rod

[Marpleman]

Or Rod, as I'm often called ;-)

Dave Rod

Apologies Rod

I'm having a "moment" for most of the morning!!!

Regards

Rich

[ACW367]

But in that case, have you thought of suggesting that AirNav simply buy that information direct from the CAA ?

Surely that would save you guys a heck of a lot of pointless and unnecessary work ?  It's readily available:

It's a continuing mystery to me why AirNav persist in the belief that they are somehow entitled to get, for free, data that the rest of the industry expects to have to pay for.

And no, before you ask, I'm not on commission from the CAA :-)

Dave you know full well that Airnav cannot just purchase the official CAA and then use it to populate their own database.  If Airnav did this they would be in breach of contract and liable to legal action. They all have licence agreements which specifically prevent this.  The CAA one says:

"Copyright in the report and Database right in the Database (and the format of the data) whether on disks or other media, are vested in the CAA and it shall not be copied or distributed, sold or hired out or otherwise dealt with, without the written consent of the CAA.  All rights reserved."

The international civil aircraft register which you have suggested they use before states:

"2. LICENSEE RIGHTS AND RESTRICTIONS OF USE.

2.1 - BUREAU VERITAS grants the licensee a personal, non-exclusive, non-assignable and non-transferable licence to the International Register of Civil Aircraft via the website aviation-register.com for his own internal business purposes. The licensee is not authorised to grant any sub-licence.

2.2 -The Licensee shall not:

2.2.1 - Sell, rent, use, access, transmit, reproduce, adapt or modify or make any attempt to modify, in whole or in part the Available Information and/or the Computer Software, even on the ground that the Available Information and/or the Computer Software allegedly contains an error, except and to the extent expressly permitted by the present license."

The only way Airnav could use this kind of official information is to negotiate a bespoke utility direct with the Government organisations.  This would require extensive legal work on the licence jargon and I guess would be very prohibitive in cost.

[DaveReid]

Now that's just being disingenuous.

You know as well as I do that the only fields that AirNav are populating (apart from the photo links) are registration, type, serial number and Mode S code - information that is, to all intents and purposes, in the public domain (if it wasn't, presumably you wouldn't even be attempting the task).

How many enthusiast societies and websites that publish this kind of data, for UK and other aircraft, do you think have been prosecuted by the CAA and its equivalents ?

All Mode S codes issued throughout the world are technically the property of the issuing registration authority, so following your argument to its logical conclusion would mean that nobody is ever allowed to publish any tieup data without express prior permission from the relevant organisation.

Granted, if AirNav were planning to buy and then redistribute proprietary information such as owner names and addresses, airframe hours, C of A expiries, etc, then clearly the CAA would not stand by idly, but nobody is suggesting that.

So I stand by my original point - trying to collate a UK Mode S tie-up database while ignoring the availability of official data is like cutting the grass with nail-scissors when AirNav could have bought you a lawn-mower :-)

[Southwest]

How many enthusiast societies and websites that publish this kind of data, for UK and other aircraft, do you think have been prosecuted by the CAA and its equivalents ?

That's quite true but would it be a different kettle of fish if you then go on to 'sell' that information?  By that I mean the database that would then be sold as part of the ANRB package.

Just my two pennyworth.

[DaveReid]

That's quite true but would it be a different kettle of fish if you then go on to 'sell' that information?  By that I mean the database that would then be sold as part of the ANRB package.

Anyone who is familiar with G-INFO will recognise the following (both the data and the field names/layout):

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<?xml-stylesheet type="text/xsl" href="basestation.xsl"?>
<bml>
  <transmission>
    <modes>400400</modes>
    <country></country>
  </transmission>
  <regdata>
    <registration>G-BNLA</registration>
    <currentregdate>30/06/1989</currentregdate>
    <previousid>NEW USA</previousid>
    <firstregdate>30/06/1989</firstregdate>
    <status>Registered</status>
    <deregdate></deregdate>
    <manufacturer>BOEING COMPANY</manufacturer>
    <type>BOEING 747-436</type>
    <serialno>23908</serialno>
    <popularname>-</popularname>
    <genericname>747</genericname>
    <aircraftclass>FIXED-WING LANDPLANE</aircraftclass>
    <engines></engines>
    <ownershipstatus>Chartered</ownershipstatus>
    <registeredowners></registeredowners>
    <mtow>396890kg</mtow>
    <totalhours>55249 at 31/12/2001</totalhours>
    <yearbuilt>1989</yearbuilt>
    <cofacategory>TRANSPORT (PASSENGER)</cofacategory>
    <cofaexpiry>29/06/2005</cofaexpiry>
  </regdata>
  <user>
    <notes></notes>
  </user>
  <history/>
</bml>

It's from the UK Starter Database on my BaseStation CD, sold as part of the SBS-1 package (only the items indicated thus are relevant to this discussion).

As far as I know, Kinetic and the CAA are still on speaking terms :-)