findings so far

[AirNav Support]

Theo,

You seem to be pulling things out of thin air. You need to start looking at the facts here about security.

1.) USA - Do they allow Live tracking in the public domain, the answer is no, only the FAA provides the data and the live data given out across the net is heavily protected by security with various audits required. The data in the public domain is all 5 minutes delayed.

2.) UK - Various Live ATC sites which were available to the public domain were closed down by the authorities. In this case the CAA does not even allow access to 5 minute delayed data in the public domain from them.

I have mentioned the UK above as this is where we have the sold the most RBs so far and the USA as thats where our company and servers are based.

We won't go into dealings further but we do have to answer questions from various authorities so Theo you don't have enough knowledge at all to making assumptions. Furthermore as Allocator has mentioned, network security issues were brought up before we released so again you have your information wrong.

Seriously if you want to bring this issue please do so with some correct information otherwise do not make such assumptions about security.

[Theo]

http://www.geluidsnet.nl/en/geluidsnet/ they even display it on google earth
ok youre wright i don't know nothing, you should move youre buisiniss overhere.
Or show some evidence where its stated clear thats against the law

Ps: don't know what in youre country the meaning of a publuc domain is but overhere is it  Public domain = Accesseble for everyone but youre network isn't accesseble for everyone is it?

What i do know (how many boxes are sold sofar) let's say 5000/6000, lets asume that 3000 make use of the network 3000x60 euro's = 180.000 euro for old data,thats a dam good reason now you gonna make me believe this hasn't nothing to do with marketing.
youre reaction on critic tells allot you waving with rules and laws but don't actualy show enything.

Bye for know over to a old and useless out of date SBS box ;-)

[Fenris]

lets asume that 3000 make use of the network 3000x60 euro's = 180.000 euro for old data

Do you know what bandwidth charges are for a busy server Theo? Rent for a decent facility with protected power supplies and redundant connectivity? It's not cheap...

[AirNav Support]

Theo,

Firstly we edited the last line of your post as whether or not it was joke it wasn't true.

Seriously Theo the only reason for our reaction is that you have said many things which are totally wrong and have no facts linked to it. You have lost creditability.

If we really wanted to limit the network to being delayed as your theory, couldn't we just have kept it live but not created a port with a data being outputted and not added a screenshot upload (this was added in last version not first anyway) as this would mean nobody else could pass the live data around. This would have been soo much easier for everyone then.  Thats that theory out the window.

Regarding laws and sites, there is already well known evidence that sites in the UK have been closed down. This has already been discussed in this thread.

Please also remember the site above and Planeplotter are in territory which can be easily be shutdown if people mention the word terrorism laws and acts. Individuals and small projects sites can take this risk in countries though do you really think a company such as ours wants to take such a massive risk which could result in us loosing licenses with the FAA and maybe even possible banning on the product itself.

Theo you need to step back and look why there isn't European data available for tracking like there has been years in the US. Its not because the systems did not have the capability its because of security.

We have just been conversation this week to a company in a EU who told us straight that they contacted there AirTraffic service for data and told it was not available neither delayed or live to anyone with stringent security and auditing.

[Allocator]

Bye for know over to a old and useless out of date SBS box ;-)

Bye Theo.  I guess that you have chosen not to read the Kinetic thread I gave you the link for, as you haven't commented on this at all - choosing to keep a closed mind.

I hope that you have enjoyed your time on this forum and that those of us who have answered your questions to the best of our ability have helped you to understand how RB works.  Good luck with your SBS-1.  Mine just gathers dust on a shelf under my printer - if I hadn't paid GBP 499 for it two and a half years ago, I don't think that I would have kept it at all :-)

[Fenris]

Presumably someone will be prepared to take it off your hands for a lesser consideration?

[tarbat]

I sold my SBS-1 on eBay for £280 just under a year ago.  Probably the going rate is still around that mark.

[DaveReid]

I sold my SBS-1 on eBay for £280 just under a year ago.  Probably the going rate is still around that mark.

Used SBSs are currently being advertised for £299.99 with a 6-month warranty on the ML&S website, so I suspect that going rate on eBay will drop now.

[Allocator]

I modded mine with the Ethernet mod that was posted on the Kinetic forum by a user who had found how to do it.  Kinetic described this mod as "butchery" and were quite rude to those who did it - then about a year later they released their own mod kit - ha!

So, my SBS-1 isn't quite in pristine condition :-)

[Theo]

Theo,

Firstly we edited the last line of your post as whether or not it was joke it wasn't true.

Seriously Theo the only reason for our reaction is that you have said many things which are totally wrong and have no facts linked to it. You have lost creditability.

If we really wanted to limit the network to being delayed as your theory, couldn't we just have kept it live but not created a port with a data being outputted and not added a screenshot upload (this was added in last version not first anyway) as this would mean nobody else could pass the live data around. This would have been soo much easier for everyone then.  Thats that theory out the window.

Regarding laws and sites, there is already well known evidence that sites in the UK have been closed down. This has already been discussed in this thread.

Please also remember the site above and Planeplotter are in territory which can be easily be shutdown if people mention the word terrorism laws and acts. Individuals and small projects sites can take this risk in countries though do you really think a company such as ours wants to take such a massive risk which could result in us loosing licenses with the FAA and maybe even possible banning on the product itself.

Theo you need to step back and look why there isn't European data available for tracking like there has been years in the US. Its not because the systems did not have the capability its because of security.

Ok you keep saying that there are sites closed because of putting live data on the network (internet), i give you a link to a site that's put realtime flight's on the internet (with knowledge of the dutch government, and now you saying  qoute: Regarding laws and site's, butt thats the argument that you say before, i show you that's not illigal (maybe in the uk, maybe you must bring out different versions on the markt then) in all the country's in europe this site actualy wright that its not illigal to put live data on there website http://radar.zhaw.ch/
for so far youre creditability.
For the remark regarding the port for outputting data, could it not be because youre other application software is depending on that data, i remember that i read it on a part of youre website that you actualy use this data (if i not misstaken its for the livetracking).

Now we can go on and on about this but thats not what i'm going to do, i only pointed out to you that its not completly true what you say about the law and security.

and for the other reply's on the topic regarding the way the software is build and the option's.
Now that's true it simply looks better then the competition, but that's not the point its all about the functionality of the device, you can put a lot of option's to the software make it looks as nice as it could be, the main fact is that it can deliver what people want even with help of 3rd party software and thats what's it all about.

@allocator, Yes i read the topic on the other forum, but Its excactly the same as what the say on this website, they also make promises and can't deliver for the same reason, but the fact (again)
it can be done one call it Mode/s and others call it networking but @ the end of it its all about share realtime.


Ps. Making dif. versions wouldn't be that a option for country's that are more flexible, i'm remebering that it was in the mid 70's that the cb Band (22 Mhz and later even 40 channels) was free for use in this country but banned in other country's, this problem was solved to bring out different versions.

Now with this above written its better to stop this topic because we not come to a agreement, you got youre vission and i got mine

[CoastGuardJon]

Hi Theo, I was intending to reply to this post of your's on 15/01, but found the thread locked (shades of Kinetic?).   Thank you for the link to the zhaw site, which I visited and have to say not very impressed with.   I note in the bottom right hand corner it say "Live", but without a RB showing directly received info., you can't tell just how live it actually is, also the info. displayed is hardly earth shatteringly detailed.    Why you can't accept that different countries have different rules and regs, I do not know - I just wonder if it's just sour grapes, or a desire on your part to stir things - if AirNav have to incorporate a 5 minute delay to be left alone by the Authorities, then so be it.   Once the Authorities realise that we're not a bunch of terrorists, then, who knows, we may be able to have live network access.   

In your PS, you ask whether different versions could be made - I don't know the ins and outs of AN as a company, but I'm sure there's a very simple answer - cost.   The cost of producing 10 or 20 units of one particular spec. would be prohibitive - Joe Public, like me wouldn't be able to afford it.

You then refer to CB in the mid 70s, this was also referred to as the 11 metre band (26 - 28 MHz) and for long distance use, AM, USB and LSB were used with "burners" (Linear Amps).   This caused considerable interference on the old VHF TV and radio channels, and also to some Airband frequencies.    When a f    riend of mine (about 1 1/2 miles away) started transmitting, he swamped 130 -136 MHz as well!    I actually had a Midland AM/Side Band rig confiscated by Post Office Radio Telecomms, when a group of us were trapped on Westbury White Horse hill.    If we wanted the rigs back we would have had to contest the confiscation and faced prosecution in the courts - it was far easier and cheaper to lose the rigs and get another one (I still have few rigs, including a Ham International Concorde 3, and the infamous Uniden 2830 covering the 10 metre 28 - 30 Mhz Amateur band, which by bridging a chip became a full 26 - 30 MHz rig).    Anyway, back to the point, because the Authorities realised they couldn't win against the illegal breakers in the UK, they decided to introduce the 27/81UK FM only 40 channel rigs, which worked on a totally different and incompatible band to the US and continental rigs, but these were produced and sold in their hundreds of thousands, very often using the same basic chip, thus reducing the cost of production hugely.   RB and SBS units will never be produced and sold in such numbers unfortunately.

If you can't get your head around simple commercial facts of life, I can only conclude you live in "Cloud Cuckoo Land", wherever that is!