AirNav Systems Forum

AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: djnixy on December 05, 2012, 10:48:59 PM

Title: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: djnixy on December 05, 2012, 10:48:59 PM
Hello,
I am not happy at all with this radarbox24.com you pay the price for the box and then this gets released for free wow, are we gonna be getting free subscriptions for fr24 network or something along them lines because this is bang out of order.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: E14 on December 06, 2012, 06:45:08 PM
After coming back to this hobby after a few years off I did at first find this puzzling. Then I realised the market for apps/live data free with the ability to add on certain parts to the masses makes total business sense.
Flightradar24 was built with the goodwill of people sharing data so I guess this will be then same. I cannot see apart from real enthusiast's and business who will pay for the real data now.
Will be interesting to see what else RB24 have in the box to add.
I guess one offsets the other but agree if you have just paid for a new box and live data you are going to feel pretty hard done by
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: djnixy on December 06, 2012, 07:27:00 PM
Yes, I understand you aswell but on the site dose not have a delay but yet the people who have payed for airnav radar box have to pay a subscription...
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: Siddy on December 06, 2012, 09:21:52 PM
"I am not happy at all with this radarbox24.com you pay the price for the box and then this gets released for free wow, are we gonna be getting free subscriptions for fr24 network or something along them lines because this is bang out of order"

I'm with you on this I paid for the box and for network access for 2 years then found you could get it on the Pc/phone etc. I question this and got nowhere and cancelled my network fee.
To say the system is fed by users data having to pay for it off hand.

Sorry for the rant.

But good luck on this project.

 
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: RodBearden on December 06, 2012, 09:43:14 PM
I suppose it all depends on what you want. RB24 only displays ADS-B (live) and ASDI (5-minute delay), so you don't get local light/business aircraft or military.

You can also use the box without an internet connection, and I personally like the interface, and the fact that we can customise it with any combinations of colours, outlines, etc.

And don't forget that RadarBox keeps logs for you, allows you to upload screenshots to your own website, and allows you to choose your own logos and silhouettes.

Basically, ithey are two very different products and I don't see why you should criticise AirNav for offering a choice.

And I'm looking forward to the Android RB24.

Rod
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: djnixy on December 06, 2012, 10:05:11 PM
I understand like but the millitary does not plot abd just gives you info.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: AirNav Support on December 06, 2012, 10:28:09 PM
All,

At present this is beta so there are plenty of decisions to be made regarding how we can improve the network for RadarBox customers and also users of RB24. There is discussions going on internally about this and we are interested in hearing constructive feedback.

The products are different as Rod has mentioned but customers of the RadarBox product from a few years must realise the marketplace has changed as well with the mobile apps and websites showing similar data. We couldn't just ignore this either.

Before anyone thinks we are ignoring RadarBox, that is not the case either, we have plenty to come for that as well.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: FIREBIRD on December 08, 2012, 10:23:55 AM
Can we have a date when!

Please
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: Brimon on December 08, 2012, 10:53:46 AM
I can understand why, when paying for subscriptions, some people are questioning the free access to Radarbox24. I also appreciate what Airnav are saying regarding the change in markets,other free web-based trackers are out there, although I think eventually RB24 will be a far better interface etc once work has completed.Certainly having used it over the last week or so I find it better than any othe web-based tracker.

Whilst I understand that Airnav have to keep up with the competition I feel that people who have a subscription, I don't at present but may when the update to Radarbox is eventually released, are right to be peeved.They are in effect, as are we all, providing the base stations & info for RB24 & being charged for the priviledge. I understand that this may be one of the discussions ongoing internally at Airnav. Maybe if they waived subscriptions for those willing to share their returns it would go some way to placating the folks who feel hard done to.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: Silver Doctor on December 08, 2012, 03:58:44 PM
I'm with djnixy on this. This is a new low for those of us who purchased Radarbox and paid our subscription year over year. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted to see new apps coming along to get more people interested in the subject, but wow, never have I felt so TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF as a loyal customer! Why would I bother uploading data from my RadarBox anymore???  So I pay RadarBox to give  them data so that they can provide it to others so that they can have the FREE SERVICE that I'm paying for? You gotta be kidding me? This is a wind up! Am I on candid camera or something? Michael O'Leary in RyanAir can learn from this one!!!! I can't see myself renewing a subscription after this.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: AirNav Development on December 09, 2012, 06:26:14 AM
RadarBox24.com and AirNav RadarBox (the hardware system) are completely different solutions.

RadarBox24.com is our jump to the mobile platforms (browser, tablets, phones) while AirNav RadarBox hardware is for users who want a different experience: have their own ADS-B receiver, their own antenna, their own system.

Both solutions will co-exist and we are planning some even great news for the months for both. RadarBox Windows client software development hasn't stopped and we have some great ideas on our to-do lists. Who knows about the hardware... :-)

Regarding data sharing: RadarBox client software retrieves aircraft photos and database information from AirNav Systems server, forever (without any time limitation), for free. The data sharing process doesn't use significant bandwidth and has to be seen as a way to compensate for the lower and high quality solutions we've been developing. The same RadarBox system used by thousands of aviation enthusiasts is being used by major aerospace companies, airlines, airports. It has even been used on the Boeing 787 project. There is a cost for all this and the sharing of data by 95% of the RadarBox units sold helps us developing new features for all.

Anyway any user is totally free to disable data sharing - if you don't agree with it, don't share.

Also note that over 100 RadarBox were deployed all over the world, since March, with the sole intention of increasing our network coverage.

RadarBox24.com is still in its very early stages and we are still deciding internally on what to do with it commercially. Fortunately the technical comments we have received are great which make us extremelly happy. It is still in beta testing meaning problems still exist and are being corrected.

As usual we are totally open for your feedback - just send us a PM, email or reply on the forum.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: terralta2002 on December 09, 2012, 12:24:54 PM
Anyway any user is totally free to disable data sharing - if you don't agree with it, don't share.

 I think personaly that that statement is very childish,negative and not in line with MY view of the way forward with anrb user's.How would radarbox24 stand in the market if we all did just that???
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: 2E0FLP on December 09, 2012, 12:46:18 PM
Obviously a shrewd move Airnav, are you sure the 100 boxes were to add to the network or simply provide data to replace that of the people like me who, as soon as my RadarBox 3D is fired up I go to the Preferences and untick the "Share Flight Data" box !!

To expect loyal paying customers to provide data free of charge and then expect them to pay for aditional network coverage is in my opinion, unfair. It only adds insult to injury when this data is then used for a platform that is free for all ! I would have thought a nominal fee or charge for an app would be the way to go for what you suggest is a superior product compared to the competition.

Just my thoughts, so from now on the data I receive is going to stay mine !

As Airnav rightly say, if you don't agree, just remember to untick that box everytime you fire your receiver up. (by default it always ticked to share data everytime you start the software)

Still a fantastic product and gives me many hours of enjoyment. Looking forward to (any) future developements
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: Runway 31 on December 09, 2012, 01:51:03 PM
To me RB and RB24 are different but complementary products.  I can use RB24 for those occasions where I am unable to set up the box and antenna and have an internet connection available.

RB24 is on Beta and it being available to anyone at this time is a good way to advertise the product and to get more comments on how it is working to aid its development prior to full run out of the developed version.

To receive the RB network via the box users require to have a box and to subscribe.  Why then should none box users and non-subscribers get the data freely?

Once we get beyond the Beta stage, I feel that instead of being available to just anyone it should be available solely to subscribers and those who upload the data from their RB.

Alan

Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: AirNav Development on December 09, 2012, 11:47:45 PM
Great discussion and helps us in our decision making regarding RB24.com and RB.

AirNav is the only company developing solutions for and on several platforms:
- Hardware
- Network
- Browser
- Mobile: iOS and Android
- Windows

And for many types of customers:
- Airlines
- Airports
- Aerospace companies
- data providers
- Websites
- Aviation enthusiasts

It's not easy to deal with all these at the time but we try to bring professional solutions to non-professional users and to get the great feedback from thousands of enthusiasts to the professional world.

One thing our users need to know: development and innovation will never stop at AirNav Systems and you will see what we mean in the next months.

Again thanks a lot for all your interest in our products and I'm sure we will come up to a solution which will make everyone happy. And as Runway31 wrote, RB24.com is not even released, just a beta version available to raise attention from everyone.

Please share the existence of RB24.com with your friends so we can make it bigger.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: Aerotower on December 11, 2012, 10:44:16 PM
I do not understand why I have to pay to have a service that is available to everyone with just one click.

My sharing of flight, received by my box is officially off.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: landyman on December 12, 2012, 04:19:54 PM
"RadarBox24.com has been released in beta mode (meaning we are still improving it)."

Software for the hardware I bought, still needs improving, so I guess that it's also beta!

I join the other posters about having to pay to be able to upload data, for the company to give my data away.

OK, I can tick the box every time I start the program, like the other boxes, that revert to default on closing.

This is annoying and needs to be improved, just like the many other annoying and unfinished features in the RB software.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: D-ALPA on December 13, 2012, 01:52:55 PM
Sorry for my bad english, i hope all understand it.

I bought a more expensive box because I enjoy it. but now I see how my data are commercially processed here on. in my box software I must content myself ugly airplane pictures. in the project from radarbox24, great aircraft are preview images. great preview window and and and.
Conclusion, I let my box also made ​​first!

We should not turn on all the box for a week, let's see if it is still a great air traffic at radarbox24.

Customers who prefer the support of a lot of money to buy boxes!!

SHAME SHAME SHAME AIRNAV !


Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: AirNav Support on December 13, 2012, 02:02:15 PM
As explained RB24 is open to the public without any cost, or without having a RB subscription in the BETA test phase.

This is NOT a permament solution, so those complaining in there posts need to understand this first. We are listening to suggestions from RB customers who are key in feeding RB24 to how it can be used after the beta period.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: landyman on December 13, 2012, 05:29:16 PM
As explained RB24 is open to the public without any cost, or without having a RB subscription in the BETA test phase.

This is NOT a permament solution, so those complaining in there (SIC) posts need to understand this first. We are listening to suggestions from RB customers who are key in feeding RB24 to how it can be used after the beta period.

So get existing RB customers to provide free data while you charge them in the opposite direction.

So get existing RB customers to help you develop and debug RB24, while ignoring their requests to update the partly developed RB software that they have already paid for.

Then when RB24 is out of beta, charge users.

Here is a suggestion.  Get RB software improved and use an RB as a 'dongle' in it's original meaning for use with RB24.

If you are too young to remember the original dongle supplied with some software running on CBM PETs; it was used to verify the user as a paid user, and without the dongle the software would not run.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: djnixy on December 13, 2012, 06:33:54 PM
Great at least some users understand why I started this post!
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: Runway 31 on December 13, 2012, 06:43:58 PM
Where has it been stated that RB users will be charged to use RB24, some scaremongering me thinks.  Myself and others are very happy to assist with debugging to ensure we get something which is appropriate to us

I would already suggest that the process is in place to ensure only appropriate users can access RB24 when the decision is made, similar to network access.

It makes sense to allow potential users to see and get a flavour of the software and see if it is what they may like to use and may even assist them in the decision to become Radarbox users in the future.

Alan
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: AirNav Support on December 13, 2012, 07:59:43 PM
Exactly as Runway 31 has said we have never said we are charging anyone yet for RB24.com, in fact we have announced nothing for the pricing or who will be able to have access or not. This is simply a beta release and we have released it to the public for everyone to use for a temporary period.

Regarding RadarBox the beta version for that is being tested and development is being done by another team.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: landyman on December 13, 2012, 09:16:08 PM
Where has it been stated that RB users will be charged to use RB24, some scaremongering me thinks.
Alan

It was stated here:-

[Quote from: AirNav Support on Today at 15:02:15]
As explained RB24 is open to the public without any cost, or without having a RB subscription in the BETA test phase.

This is NOT a permament solution

[/quote]

So in beta no cost, but it's NOT a permanent solution.

The only alternative to no cost is some cost.  Simple.

Confirmed by :-

"we have never said we are charging anyone yet"

The important word being 'yet'.  The rest of that posting further confirms cost.

So you get to like the free to use version and then charges are added later.   Then you pay or can't continue to use.  It would have been more honest to have announced at the start that while in beta it will remain free, but as soon as we take it out of beta, costs will be involved.

I'm of the old school that has any version less than 1.00 as beta or below and that as soon as 1.00 is available, it's as bug free and capable as a quality product should be.  These days bug ridden software is accepted as the norm.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: Runway 31 on December 13, 2012, 10:02:13 PM
Might be simpler to wait and find out what is going to happen.

Alan
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: AirNav Support on December 13, 2012, 10:08:05 PM
We have mentioned in reply 6 and 10 that nothing has been decided yet and we are looking for feedback from customers.  I know certain users will grab anything from our posts to make it look one way or another but the simple fact is this:

- Its remaining free and with access to everyone during the beta period after which we will decide whether there is cost associated or not and whether its limited or not to certain customers/users.

We welcome any constructive comments and feedback about the above.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: chris kelham on December 13, 2012, 10:53:34 PM
As a subscriber to 5 minute delayed network traffic I can sort of see all sides to this thread -

I seem to be paying money to access delayed data while non subscribers are getting live data for free - however see that this may not always be the case re- possible fututre charges.   

I am finding it hard to see the business model though - FR24  has people willing to share their data for free be it radar box or SBS and they are not charging for this service.

They generally seem to show more flights than RB24 - assuming kind hearted SBS users are providing extra data i.e shanghai -

Users turning off their data stream might stop RB24 but I doubt it - enough enthusiasts want to spread their hobby and will do so fo for free.

I aslo undertsand that having a "radarbox" and RB24 are different products - I can sit at Heathrow with my box in the car without having to stream expensive data on my mobile phone - and also the mobile phone can tell me what is coming in, beyond my radars reach when out and about.

However as a compromise solution perhaps people paying for network delayed data such as myself  should get live network traffic through RB if they are providing the data for RB24. Could we also get the American data from RB24 put into RB network enabling us to really up the amount of traffic shown?

One other point - the numbers on network traffic never seem quite as high as the stats show - why? I also seem to remeber peak figures being higher than they are of late. Are unhappy people turning off their network traffic re RB development upset threads or am I mistaken?

I like RB as a product - think RB24 has features that improve on FR24 - but as they got there first and have people providing data free - am not sure that you are going to keep all people happy re "I paid and you are giving my data away free."   If you alienate the people providing the data and it drops as a result - FR24 offers the better option if you want to track more aircraft without paying subscription - Good luck in keeping everyone happy!

Perhaps the business model needs to be an active push to PAY  places to have boxes - such as hotels with 24 hour computer access and charge people for a real world wide coverage - fill in Africa etc - instead of tryng to find people to have the free 50 boxes ( I think you have given more away than the thread title). What about finding out the air enthusiats using SBS who give data to FR24 and giving them a box - catch up with flight coverage quite quickly! They might ditch the SBS once they see the superior interface anyway!

I have my data share left on but I wont be paying for RB24 if that ends up being the case - becasue I can use the competitors basic version for free
Chris K
 
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: John Racars on December 15, 2012, 11:15:55 AM
Hi Support,

I would like to say that I am, as you know, a Radarbox user from almost the beginning. During all these years until today I am a satisfied user and experience a lot of fun with the Radarbox!

I see Radarbox24 as a welcome addition for our hobby.

As far as I am concerned no doubt possible: I keep my data just share with you.

Much success in further by developing and keep up the good work!

Kind Regards, John
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: Netcop on December 15, 2012, 01:41:19 PM
Fully support all John's statements.

I've been a RadarBox user for more than three years, and during the past two I've been providing 24/7 translations from Moscow FIR. I have subscription to live network and intend to continue this subscription and feeding network with my data.

As for RB24,  my strong opinion – this resource must be free for all users, not only for RB family guys, after Beta period. Тhis powerful instrument will increase our network coverage due to the increase of RB's customer base. We've been a very close community for a long time, now it’s time to change this which will benefit to our all of us.

Regards,
Nick
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: AirNav Development on December 15, 2012, 01:51:34 PM
We are following this thread with great interest as it is really important for us to be aware of what users are thinking about all these solutions and any possible commercial decisions we will make.
Thanks for sharing all your opinions and we will always be aware of them when taking decisions.
For now what matters is that technically RB24 is a complete success with the absolute majority of users sending us reports that it is a much better solution when compared to other existing flight tracking sites. We will continue to work hard to further improve RB24 and all other AirNav Systems products.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: AirNav Development on December 15, 2012, 01:52:57 PM
And, very important, please help us by sharing the existence of RadarBox24.com with all your aviation community friends: on facebook, twitter, forums, message boards and emails. RadarBox24.com has to be the hub for online flight tracking - and will - after you know what we are preparing for 2013.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: Aerotower on December 15, 2012, 04:41:46 PM

I like RB as a product - think RB24 has features that improve on FR24 - but as they got there first and have people providing data free - am not sure that you are going to keep all people happy re "I paid and you are giving my data away free."   If you alienate the people providing the data and it drops as a result - FR24 offers the better option if you want to track more aircraft without paying subscription - Good luck in keeping everyone happy!

Chris K
 

Clapping
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: AirNav 3D Development on December 15, 2012, 05:36:15 PM
All,

I just want to jump in and remind everyone that, while we are testing RB24, it's freely available with all features to everyone so we can get a broad range of feedback from all users. After we get enough feedback and test the infrastructure (such as testing & tuning server performance, server reliability, etc), we will move to next phase of deployment. All RadarBox owners will be considered premium users and have access to all features/options. The guest/free account will still be available, but it will be more limited that it is now (how much more limited is still being determined--please provide feedback on this too if you have any).

If you, as RadarBox owners, have any special feature requests that only RadarBox owners will have access to, please let us know so we can develop these features for you. We have some exciting features in the pipeline for RadarBox owners, but we haven't yet fully completed them. Obviously we just cannot make everyone happy, but our RadarBox customers are number one priority and we want to provide you with all of  the features we can.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: k1xv on December 17, 2012, 02:04:52 PM
When something becomes available, even if only temporarily, the last people to pay are always ticked off.    Its human nature.   Don't get discouraged, AirNav team.   Maybe they will become happier when you charge for it.
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: chris kelham on December 18, 2012, 08:21:23 AM
Re - your request for how to cut back the coverage for non RB customers - If you want to encourage further RB24 use, to encourage further network expansion, you will need to offer more for free than your competitiors do... otherwise why use RB24? Don't cut back too far or it will just become an-online version of the RB network - a lot of effort to give only current RB users the network on the move.

Many people will want RB24 on the move so will be purchasing the APP anyway. Free downlaod for data contributors/ charge for those that don't ? ( if FR24 numbers can be believed their must be plenty of non data people ouy there willing to buy an APP)

Perhaps non data sharers could access the premium fetaures for a fee, that would be refundable against a box... therefore encouraging network expansion

I don't see it as my data making profits for RB - as long as we get network expansion - love to have a box in Nairobi, Cairo, Lagos

Just some thoughts...

Relieved by Dev comments on free access to all features for RB owners

Chris K
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: trev on December 18, 2012, 08:13:48 PM
I agree, all RB subscribers like myself should have full access to RB24 when it is up and running. In fact we should have full access now as after a short period RB24 times out. As full paying subscribers it should not time out.

Thanks

Trev
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: RodBearden on December 18, 2012, 08:21:07 PM
Trev - just register on the site and it won't time out.

Rod
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: trev on December 18, 2012, 08:34:32 PM
Cheers Rod,

 Can i log on using the same password as the forum? or do i have to register with new password?

Thanks in advance

Trev
Title: Re: So We Pay For The Air Nav At A High Price And Then This Gets Released!
Post by: Runway 31 on December 18, 2012, 09:21:13 PM
Its up to you what you use to register.

Alan