AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: GreekSpy2001 on January 18, 2011, 10:58:01 AM
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Hi
Now seeing a number of issues where planes are plotting on the map close to my home location. They are in my flights with the world symbol and are on my Plane Plotter screen which is getting its data from my Radarbox.
Is this a known problem? Running 4.03 in 2D mode
Graham
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Do they appear if you zoom into the area near your home, might just be the map not refreshing?
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tried zooming in and out. Changed map to another ie default map to london map. Still no appearance. Also it is not every flight.
Graham
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Hello
Do you use real time network? After getting the realtime network here our ADS-B aircrafts only show on the map 5 minutes or so after we first receive its position. This problem didn't occur in 5 min delayed or if the network is turned off. I have in the past mentioned this but it didn't get looked into much by Airnav.
Andrew
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Never seen that mentioned before, are you saying all your aircraft appear on the map 5 minutes after appearing with a globe in myflights?
If so thats not normal and not something that the vast majority of people see.
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Don't use the Network flights option at all. So it won't be that. A restart has cured the problem for now. Have seen it before. Will keep an eye on it
Graham
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Hello Support
It was discussed here: http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=5207.0 (along with unreliable alerts but they are good bit better now) We think it must definitely be to do with Realtime network since it has been tested here on 3 computers , 2 radarboxes and at quiet and busy times of the day.
Another observation I have made is that if a flight is just transitioning from Network to myflights it appears immediately but if it is coming into an area that is only in range of us then it takes a while. We have even had a range alert at the 35NM before it showed on the map once or twice but this is exceptional.
By the way all the usual things have been done (installed in C:/airnav and Virus exemption etc)
Thank you.
Andrew
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Spoke too soon. Happening again. Two flights just taken off from LHR not showing but have the World status and are on PP screen. And just to reiterate I have Network flights turned off and I do not subscribe to them.
Just now seen them appear on the map. One was at FL100 before it appeared and the other at FL55. Both on different departure SIDs.
It now seems anything departing from LHR is not getting plotted until its reached either FL50 or been in the air a certain period of time.
Graham
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That is strange.
Are you both using 64bit?
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Yep using 64bit Win 7 Ultimate
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just to add. I'm getting landing traffic at LHR down to approx 500 ft. Just nothing taking off. Seems as if it is taking a while for the software to process new flights. Will do a reboot later.
Graham
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Surely your getting other aircraft coming into your range as well (not just the aircraft taking off) which are not affected?
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Your posts seem to suggest you are not picking up at low level, do you have any advanced filters set for altitude?
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The taking off bit is a red herring. It appears any new flight is taking time to be plotted on a map. Just had an alert for a Turkish A319 on route from DUB-IST at FL330 and that took 2 or 3 minutes from appearing on my log before it was plotted on the map. Was on PP screen as the RDB alert appeared.
Graham
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Graham
Has this problem just started today or have you had it previously. Also how do you know it is your data which is making the aircraft appear on Planeplotter and not someone else?
When it is in your myflight does it have the globe beside it when it is not on the screen?. I ask as on some occasions I have aircraft in my flights with no globe due to the screening effect of the building which cuts off the ADSB part which still allows sufficient signal through to allow the aircraft details to appear in my flights, during this time it doesnt appear on the map. As you can see I am not very technical with this so may have some of the terminology wrong.
Alan
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Hello Support
I have encountered this issue with XP 32bit, vista 32bit and 7 32bit. If you want I will email you direct with more details.
Andrew
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Please do email us with any information which could help track this down.
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This issue has been reported before, see here: http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=5461.0
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Hi
Rebooted system. Back up running and the problem doesn't seem to exist at present. Will leave running overnight and check in the morning. Suspect it could be a resources issue of RDB on my machine which also casues the BSoD.
Graham
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In reply to Alan
I know that it is my data on PP as my plots are a different colour to those that come off their network. I am not masked by anything as previously I have always got these plots and the problem is showing when aircraft first appear at all heights and all over my coverage area.
Having rebooted they are now appearing. Will check again in the morning after the system has been running overnight.
Graham
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I know that it is my data on PP as my plots are a different colour to those that come off their network.
I wouldn't be so sure. I've seen instances where Planeplotter is showing aircraft in the colour for my local aircraft, but the POSITION data is coming from the PP network. Planeplotter still treats the aircraft as a local aircraft because the non-positional data is coming in on port 30003 (or 7879).
Only sure way of testing is to turn OFF the network in Planeplotter.
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Thanks to those who are providing with us with details at the moment. We are trying to get a picture of whats going on.
So far we have people saying its because of the network/not network related/Planeplotter or 64bit. So not really anything solid and reproducible yet :)
However please take note of the following before contacting us (as a few have and it hasn't been related):
- An aircraft can be in your reception polar diagram but not show up. This is because the polar diagram does not take into account height, aircraft are lower altitudes might not be seen while higher ones will.
- If an aircraft goes from your MyFlights (in your local reception) to outside of it but your not getting position data from it won't appear on the network untill you loose all contact with it.
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What?
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I don't understand that either.
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Which part?
We just mentioned two cases where customer can easily get confused and say where is the aircraft its missing when there are reasons for it unrelated to any bug.
- Edit we will explain this again. These are two cases below explaining how RB works which a few people are getting confused with this issue.
Polar Plot - Customers are mentioning in a few cases there polar diagrams shows that it covers a certain airport, They know ABC123 has just taken off from that airport but they can't see it on the map. The polar diagram shows an area you have received aircraft plots from, it doesn't mean you should receive all aircraft from the ground up to FL400 in that location. It just shows you had received aircraft in that position which may have been at FL300 and your reception is limited below that due to hills/buildings etc.. Hope that explains that one better.
Network Transition:
If an aircraft is on the network and then comes into your MyFlights whether its plotting or not it will be removed from your network flights.
Example your at Heathrow with the RB and get reception as far as Dover:
BAW123 on the network and is in Germany
BAW123 is now in your MyFlights without a plot as it crosses the channel (due position signal not being received yet), it won't be in your network flights and won't plot.
BAW123 crosses Dover and starts plotting and is still in MyFlights
Example going the other way:
BAW321 at Heathrow takes off and is in your MyFlights plotting
BAW321 reaches the channel and doesn't plot anymore as its going out of reception but still in your MyFlights.
BAW321 is now not being received at all by your RB as its crosses channel and it should now appear from the network.
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Yes Tarbat that could be the case. However, the flights I am taking into account. Are in MY flights first. Have the World symbol that suggests they are plottable within RDB and are well within my area of coverage ( in areas that I would normally expect to recieve them without hinderance). I then look on PP to see if they are plotting o that screen. But can turn off networking to confirm.
Graham
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JUst to confirm. Turned off sharing in PP. BA752 G-EUPV in my flights as taking off from LHR from approx 750ft with world symbol. Didn't show until it was at FL70 on RDB map but WAS on PP screen from approx 750ft. So it would seem that are a period of running their can be delays with the sw in writing data onto the map? ( caveat - on my PC)
Will check for aircraft appearing at higher levels/areas of coverage.
Graham
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Does it appear in the 3D mode?
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Graham, a quick test to do. When one of these aircraft is missing from the map, try moving the RB map slightly, or press the HOME button. Does the aircraft then appear?
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Also double click on the aircraft on MyFlights, does the map move location?
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I have tried moving the map zooming in and out. Not tried the HOME button can you remind me which button to press? I did try double clicking, this is what brought it to my attention. Would double click and nothing would happen, so investigated further. Hence this thread.
Also have not subscribed to 3D mode (happy enough for 2d mode for my plane spotting activities) so can't test that. Willing to test if you were to give me temporary access (24hrs max would be enough I guess)
Graham
Cheers
Graham
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Not tried the HOME button can you remind me which button to press?
The Home button on the toolbar. It probably won't make any difference if you've already tried moving the map, zooming, etc. I guess we've ruled out a graphics drawing issue.
Also confirm, you've definately clicked on the "Show All" in the filters toolbar (NOT the Quick Filters)
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DOH moment for the HOME button!!!
Haven't ruled out a graphics drawing issue but have used this hardware for previous versions and OS's haven't noticed any problem before.
Confirm using "show all"
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Just like GreekSpy2001, I'm also experiencing aircraft with the "globe" not appearing on the map around the London area, even though the area is well within range (I live about 5 miles from Heathrow). This could be happening because of the high number of aircraft movements in the London area.
This same issue/bug has been happening to other users for sometime. User "airdata" started a thread on this back in Sept 2010, and I also added to that thread in Nov. 2010. And now few months later more users are reporting this issue.
This is the previous thread:
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=5461.0
This is not a network issue, I haven't had network access since it expired in Aug. 10 and I don't use Planeplotter. I've tried all the solutions given in the previous thread and It hasn't solved the problem.
The only way to get the aircraft back on the map is to deselect and select "process hardware flights", it'll re-occur later until the process is repeated.
As this is now being reported by many users, I think we need a definite fix, otherwise this thread will end with nothing resolved. Then a few months later someone will start another discussion on this same topic, and we'll start another round of debugging and "try that, try this".
Allot of information has been provided to Airnav Support/Dev in this thread and the previous thread.
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This could be happening because of the high number of aircraft movements in the London area.
Agreed, this needs to be fixed, but that will be difficult if Airnav can't reproduce the problem. So, are we saying this is only a problem in high traffic areas? Maybe we can get some idea from the users suffering from this problem which areas they cover, and total number of aircraft typically in their MyFlights list.
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In response. My coverage area is SE England. typically approx 65 flights in My flights at midday.
Graham
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knight01,
It will be looked at in detail and rectified, however the last time it was brought up we could never replicate it and we assumed this must be due to a graphics refresh issue on some machines.
Even now, we don't have full details of when this is exactly seen the earlier report orkney is in a low traffic area and he mentioned he had the network which goes against the last few reports. A lot of the users in the earlier thread had 64bit machines which may be a clue.
At the moment we still need more details and reports from users to find the common factor in all of these.
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This problem definitely exists in 4.03, that's why I used 3.13 most of the time. I don't think thаt it's some graphics refresh issue - I saw this situation on three different PCs running on XP 32-bit.
As for the reproducing issue - try the following. PC power scheme must be as follows - all components always on, no sleep mode, screensaver, etc. Start 4.03 and don't touch pc mouse for 20-30 min or something like that. You'll see.
And yes, only ways to get the aircraft back on the map is to deselect and select "process hardware flights" or wait 2-4 minutes before the aircraft with the globe mark in My Flights will be displayed on the mар.
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In response. My coverage area is SE England. typically approx 65 flights in My flights at midday.
Graham
Sounds to me as if the key words here are "local" & "density". 65 flights is less than half the number I would expect however mine are spread throughout a 400nm diameter circle.
I guess that if you can work LAP from ground up then add in some stuff from City Gatwick Stansted Luton plus overflights you could squeeze an awful lot into a very small area on a busy day.
Is it possible that RB has a limit on what it can physically plot (as opposed to receive) with very heavy traffic in a very restricted area?
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bratters,
No its not about what it can receive as some of users are saying the postions are being seen on PP when the data is being past from the RadarBox. Furthermore one person reported it in low traffic areas so this theory looks unlikely at the moment as no evidence to suggest it.
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What happens on the map when two aircraft report the same position but at different heights?
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I did note on a previous thread that with the same setup I was getting more flights on my 32bit XP laptop that on my Win 7 64bit PC. approx 15-20% more on XP at any one time. I was just unplugging from laptop to pc and back.
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As for the reproducing issue - try the following. PC power scheme must be as follows - all components always on, no sleep mode, screensaver, etc. Start 4.03 and don't touch pc mouse for 20-30 min or something like that. You'll see.
Okay, I've tried this, and at the end of 30 minutes all 6 ADS-B aircraft listed in MyFlights still appear on the map okay. 6 in the list, 6 on the map. But I'm running Vista 32-bit, so maybe this is just a 64-bit problem?
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I reported it also on the previous thread. My laptop running RB is on 24 hours and this problem comes and goes. It can go for days where all aircraft with the globe are displayed on the map. Then at other times as many as 5-6 won't display. This is AKL and at most I get around 10 aircraft plotting on the map. To get around this I untick the "process hardware flights" and then tick it again. All the aircraft then happily appear....
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airdata,
What version of the software do you use? and are you using 64bit?
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After exchanging emails with customers we have some details to what may be a common factor.
To those who are seeing this can you please confirm you have the following, either my posting here or emailing us:
- Software 4.03 and have paid for the 3D version
- Problem on 2D Map
- Occurs with either network on or off
Thanks,
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THOUGHT THIS WAS A PROBLEM BUT IGNORED IT. CAN SOLVE IT BY ZOOMING IN AND OUT ON MAPS. HAPPENS AWHILE AFTER STARTING AIRNAV IN 2D MODE MAYBE 3-6 HOURS RUNNING - I VERY, VERY SELDOM USE 3D.
VISTA 64BIT - ON ASUS G5050V LAPTOP. 4GB MEMORY.
YES - PAID FOR 3D 4.03.
USE NETWORK 95% OF TIME SO DON'T KNOW ABOUT NON-USING NETWORK.
REGARDS - SKIDMARKS
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I am using v 3.13 on windows 7 home premium 64-bit. I do not subscribe to network (so the network is off), I also do not have 3D.
Again, this is comes up from time to time and everything can run perfectly for days on end and then all of sudden this problem appears and is only rectified by clicking the "process hardware flights" and clicking it again.
airdata,
What version of the software do you use? and are you using 64bit?
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have 4.03 running in 2d mode have not subscribed to either 3d or network mode running win 7 64 bit
hth
graham
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for info. Came to my machine at 2200 this evening. Only 20 flights in myflights with the world symbol. Only 1 plottig on map. Toggled Process Hardware and they all appeared.
Graham
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10 mins later same problem.... Seems to be getting worse.
Graham
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I have version 3.13 running on Windows 7 64 bit, I do not use the network for Radarbox or PP.
I am seeing ADS-B aircraft tracking locally in PlanePlotter which is fed by the Radarbox, they are not showing as tracked by the Radarbox software no ADS-B indicator and not on the Radarbox map. I have the internet connection turned off so the PP data must be coming direct from Radarbox and the aircraft are not spurious signals because they are on the VHF radio under ATC control.
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I have done further testing today and been in the location of BHX and EGNX some aircraft on the ground are plotting as they taxi in PP which is fed by the Radarbox. In the Radarbox list they are displayed as none ADS-B (No Globe) when the aircraft get airborne they have the globe and start displaying.
Very strange?
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I get this all the time - initially without a globe and not tracking, and then after about a minute, the tracking kicks in
Emirates appear to be more affected with me for some bizarre reason??
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The aircraft I saw tracking on PlanePlotter and not Radarbox where Ryanair, DHL and UPS.
The Radarbox is receiving them but not the software for some reason.
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Just one thing to note when comparing Radarbox and Planeplotter screens. Make sure the timeout settings on both are identical. In Planeplotter "Omit Aircraft After" = The sum of the two MyFlight timeout settings in Radarbox.
For example, I use:
PP Omit Aircraft After = 3 minutes
ANRB Mark as Timeout = 17 seconds
ANRB Hide Timeout = 163 seconds
Also turn of position prediction in Planeplotter. I'm not saying this is the cause of these problems, just one thing to eliminate from the factors that can affect any comparison between ANRB and PP.
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In my case the timings of PP are the sum of the two.
It does not appear to be a timeout issue because the aircraft were just starting up to taxi, they appeared on PP as they were taxiing but not in the Radarbox software until they were up in the air.
For example an aircraft has just called up to taxi at EGNX and it is plotting on PP but in the Radarbox software it is displayed as non ads-b. I am sure it will appear in a few minutes.
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I also had that Problem for a long time and tried a lot.
The only thing what brought a big improvement, was when i deleted all my history data O-:
Before that, the only what helped for the short moment was to open a new 2d map on map menu.
In my case:
- there was no significant change if i used network or not.
- the plans missing on 2 D were definitely in range (after takeoff on nearby cologne airport.)
- the flights completely appeared in the interface immediatedly after takeoff, also in the 3D map, but only after long time in 2D.
- it dident matter if it were high or low traffic times.
- the problems appeared when the system was running for a while.
- I got an XP 32 bit system with an intelE8400
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Ups, a part of my answer cut....
Its now about one month that i deleted my data, and it is still quite ok.
Starting planes from my nearby airport (cologne) show up on the map from about 900 to 2000 ft.
Landings i can track about 100ft above touchdown.
before that the starting flights sometimes took minutes to show up on fl 80 or even later.
harvey
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Hi
I have a somewhat similar problem.
In myflights I see no local commercial traffic at all landing or taking off from Guernsey on the map.
All the aircraft appear in the left hand list panel and a picture of the plane is shown at the bottom.
Some of the local traffic may not be equipped with the right gear but most aircraft are new in 2010.
My antenna is only about 3 miles from the airport and I see all the passing longhaul with no difficulty.
The annoying thing is that most aircraft can be seen from my window.
anybody got any ideas.
Bounty
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Do the aircraft on the list panel have a globe between tracked and status?. This indicates that they are equipped and should show. If the dont have the globe they wont show on the map and it wont matter the age of the aircraft.
Alan
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Bounty
I don't know exactly what commercial traffic you get but i live near Gatwick and things like Flybe prop a/c don't give full modeS so they never show up on the map. Also many bizjets and light a/c are normally not full modeS.
Brian
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Thanks guys, that makes sense
Bounty
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If you want to see non-ADSB traffic at this time you will need something like planeplotter.
Alan