AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: andrewarles on August 28, 2010, 07:42:31 PM
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Hi,
Over the past few weeks, since buying the RadarBox I have made hundreds and hundreds of modifications / updates / deletes etc… to my local database NavData.db3 and I think it is a real pity that the time I have been spending has not helped updating the main AirNav database.
There are a number of daily modifications being done via the forum, but they only represent a tiny percentage of the work that really needs to be done.
The question I have is, with the number of passionate RadarBox users in the world, would it not be possible to ask the users themselves for their help to do a complete purge and update of the database (or at least the main aircraft types, airliners, biz, etc)
For example, each volunteer would choose an aircraft type(s) of his choice.
The administrators that do the updates would give an extraction in an excel format of the chosen aircraft type in the database, and send it to the users to amend. Once all the amendments have been made, the volunteer then sends the file back to the administrators to update the main database.
It’s only a thought, but with a bit of organisation and coordination could it not be feasible?
How many people would volunteer?
I would be the first to volunteer and accept a number of aircraft types.
Andrew
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Sounds like a great idea.
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Sounds like a great idea.
Indeed.
But regarding to the huge amount of B73x, A31x/A32x and other Regional Jets flying around it might be a good idea to make a smaller splitting than by AirCraft type. Splitting by AirCraft Type per Country may produce more easy to handle packages. Unfortunately this will require more volunteers...
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Hmm............
Let me see, I reckon if you're lucky you may get a small handful to volunteer.....
Had to check the date to check it asn't April 1st?
Come on AirNav, what do you think??
Seriously.....
Andrew, I notice that you mention you have only had your box for a few weeks, so you may not be aware that this project is currently ongoing after being initiated a few months back - it's a tough nut to crack to say the least, and has provided the forum with many different threads of discussion/disagreement/heartache etc etc !
There is an small team of Database Updaters currently trawling through existing records and adding new records virtually non-stop every day, but it's a mammoth task.
The team are regularly in communication with Development to improve and speed up the process, but I'm sure as you will appreciate, given the scope and size of the task, there's no easy quick fix.
The most effective current method of pushing these changes through to the end user would be via issuing a new updated navdata file to users and then re-issuing it on a regular basis, as there are some limitations with the current software structure that are preventing some info feeding through to end users .
Currently, we're not quite "there" with a complete enough new file to cater for everyone's requirements, but hopefully will be able to move on this soon.
Obviously the release of any new navdata files is at the discretion of AirNav.
At the moment there is another thread on the board where users can post details of records that are not populating fully or correctly,and the updater team (or in the main Alan "Runway 31" - who deserves a knight-hood for his patience and perseverence!) will amend the records accordingly after checking via other recognised media.
We're hoping to make some significant improvements on the task soon via some software enhancements.
Hope this makes things clearer?
Dave - you should know better ;-)
Regards
Rich
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Dave - you should know better
Sorry, couldn't resist :-)
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Dont keep the unknowns to yourself, forward them in using the appropriate thread and we will get them filled in and added to the database. That way we all benefit.
For all people complain there are very few who actually contribute by sending the unknowns in for checking and adding.
Alan
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Rich,
Thanks for that. As you quite rightly pointed out, I am fairly new to the RadarBox, but have been wading through the many posts trying to understand the plan of action with regard to updating the database.
You may have noticed that over the last week or so I have been giving the team updates to make to the database, but I'm wondering if it is really worth it with the database in its current state.
As you said, it’s a mammoth task, and I just can’t see how one person or a small team of people will be able to make any kind of noticeable progress on the db.
What will the level of clean up be exactly? Will it be simply making changes to aircraft and adding new aircraft, or going through each construction list and adding missing aircraft and deleting unregistered aircraft? The latter is a very long and tedious task.
As I said, I have made hundreds and hundreds of changes to the db, and I maybe wasting my time if there is a new db3 issued by AirNav.
Obviously, if there are very few volunteers that changes things.
Just another thought, are you the administrators working on the same database as the AirNav team? If AirNav issue another database, will they pick up the daily changes that you are making?
Rich, Alan and all the team, sorry but I’m not trying cause trouble, just trying to help things. This seems to be a very sensitive subject, so subject closed (unfortunately).
Regards.
Andrew
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Andrew,
We are making changes to the Airnav database and to this time have added or amended around about 43,000 aircraft with many more to go.
Please keep sending in your amendments or missing aircraft, it all adds up and every little helps. There are a lot of aircraft in your area that only you will see as they are not ADSB equipped and dont show on the network so keep on sending them in.
Alan
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We are making changes to the Airnav database and to this time have added or amended around about 43,000 aircraft with many more to go.
But when will these updates be made available to Radarbox users?
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Hi Andrew
No problem mate - totally understand that there is a lot to take in,and some of these topics only get aired every once in a while, although the database is always a "hot topic"!
Without going over too much old ground,airNav openly offered the task to volunteers, and I think if memory serves me correctly, we initially had a team of six - we've had two drop out and one new member join the team, so everyone's had the opportunity to offer their services , new users excepted.
we initially concentrated on looking at known existent "frames" via manufacturer production lists (Boeing,Airbus,MDD etc etc) and have cleared most of the common types.
In fact we've almost covered known long,medium and short haul airliners and are now picking up on biz jets and anything else that comes along.
Rest assured that the database we are working on is controlled by airNav so there won't be any inference from changes we are making not getting picked up, other than as a result of software anomalies which are at present preventing some information not getting through to the end user, however these gremlins are currently being ironed out.
As alan said, we are very appreciative of any data users can indeed forward onto us
Thanks
rich
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But when will these updates be made available to Radarbox users?
Additional records added to the db should be pulling through to users already, admittedly with some glitches as previously covered such as ICAO issues etc
Obviously the best way would be by issuing a revised navdata file and then subsequent updates at regular intervals, but that's AirNav's call not ours!
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Additional records added to the db should be pulling through to users already, admittedly with some glitches as previously covered such as ICAO issues etc
Ok, sorry, I've been out of the loop a bit lately. So, do these updates replace what's in our navdata databases, or do we need to delete the aircraft to get the updated record?
Is there a list somewhere of the 43,000 aircraft that have been updated?
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Tarbat, the updated will on most occasions not have any effect as they will not overwrite what you already have. If we have done a new aircraft that comes up on your system it should automatically update. You may however have to click on the data line in myflights ot netwrork flights to force the download. I would have expected that you have seen this already as I down here in Motherwell see new aircraft several times a day.
A problem we are having is that the AT sometimes doesnt come down and you may have to update this manually in database explorer to get the silhouette to appear.
Airnav will when it suits them provide a new Navdata file to replace your existing one but your guess is as good as mine when that will be.
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Understood.
Come on Airnav, get your act together. You've got a database team doing sterling work, but for most end-users they're seeing no real benefit from that work, with only new aircraft propogating.
It must be all of a few hours work to extract the data into a small update utility program to populate end-users' navdata databases.
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Airnav will when it suits them provide a new Navdata file to replace your existing one but your guess is as good as mine when that will be.
It beggars belief that AirNav isn't even prepared to share its plans with its own dedicated team of updaters.
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We are hoping to have this done via the new RadarBox software so it updates older records and have a better infrastructure that way.
We are hesitant at the moment to provide a full navdata file of the database. Mainly because we don't want the data passed around and used by other applications or competitors. We do like it come via the network connection and per aircraft basis. (The same reason why in each RadarBox update we have no updated the navdata or produced a a download of all the online database)
We are however considering a quick utility to clean the navdata tables so new data will be pumped through which won't clean any MyLog data.
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I guess a small downloadable utility that lets the end-user delete any records for the 43,000 updated records would be a quick and easy way of forcing a refresh of the data.
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We are hoping to have this done via the new RadarBox software so it updates older records and have a better infrastructure that way.
We are hesitant at the moment to provide a full navdata file of the database. Mainly because we don't want the data passed around and used by other applications or competitors. We do like it come via the network connection and per aircraft basis. (The same reason why in each RadarBox update we have no updated the navdata or produced a a download of all the online database)
We are however considering a quick utility to clean the navdata tables so new data will be pumped through which won't clean any MyLog data.
I'm somehat puzzled by this statement, as the info were using in the database is readily available to any end user of any system.
Infact it's likely that we are feeding off a lot of other peoples sterling work for other routines, in bringing a fair bit of this info into the public domain in the first place.
Many other enthusiast databases don't have an issue in the main regarding the specific info their product holds, but are more protective of the software capabilities and the uniqueness of their product.
you can't have it both ways guys - either we need a fix to how the software retrieves the info from the database, or a new navdata file to put things on a level playing field?
Rich
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DaveReid at his best: always ready to tell good things about AirNav and RadarBox. :-)
We are here and will be back on this issue asap.
Basically we ask to confirm that the best solution would be to deploy a new navdata.dbr with updated flight numbers and aircraft.
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DaveReid at his best: always ready to tell good things about AirNav and RadarBox. :-)
Well correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to be suggesting that brand-new RadarBoxes will continue to ship, indefinitely, with a database that's two years out-of-date and doesn't contain any of the work that the updaters have done ?
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Tarbat/Updaters: basically we ask to confirm that the best solution would be to deploy a new navdata.db3 with updated flight numbers and aircraft that could be downloaded from our webpage - also new CDs will come with this data.
DaveReid: taking in account your reputation and deep knowledge of Mode-S related issues it is embarassing to see you in a continuous criticism game towards anything coming from AirNav just because your company has not been choosen to provide paid/commercial aircraft data to AirNav Systems a few months ago.
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Dev, You have to remember photos are on local computers. Unless users delete the photos they have in their folders for a specific aircraft, our updates for that aircraft will never populate to them.
At this time we as updaters are not advocating users to delete the photos they have in their local folders because of the ongoing photo population issue that we have reported. The only way for users to get the information we are updating if they already have a photo of the airframe in their local folder is via a new DB3 file.
I agree with others that shipping a product to new users with a two year old file will only make competitors happy. This thread was started by a new user who got very confused that the data that was shipped with the product was so out of date!
New users should also get new silhouette and logo files that reflect the additions and deletions that will have occured over the last two years. I did a sort of logos last year and found over 200 of your supplied ones were for defunct airlines or Microsoft Flight Simulator virtual airlines that didn't even exist in the real world (quite a giggle in my opinion).
Don't forget Airnav it is not just routes and registrations that are out of date on the shipped DB3. It is also ICAO aircraft type codes and airline ICAO and IATA designators. In five years time users will be confused to open the Airlines tab on the DB3 and see Aloha airlines (Operations ceased on March 31, 2008) right there at the top of the list. Probably around one in ten of the airlines you currently have in the Navdata have gone or rebranded.
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DaveReid: taking in account your reputation and deep knowledge of Mode-S related issues it is embarassing to see you in a continuous criticism game towards anything coming from AirNav just because your company has not been choosen to provide paid/commercial aircraft data to AirNav Systems a few months ago.
Stop trying to make a connection where none exists. A well-known expression regarding shooting messengers springs to mind.
As a long-time RadarBox user and paid-up network subscriber, I am perfectly entitled to my opinion - and it's one that is clearly shared by the other contributors to this thread.
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ACW367: your message is copied. We will analyze it inside our company and take decisions soon. It's important to underline that the database are not static and they update themselves automatically from our central servers.
DaveReid: the problem is that you are always open to negative criticism, on this and on another well known forum. Forgive to say that this isn't the best attitude for someone, I say again, with such a know how and reputation in this area.
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looks as i am also in need for a new navdata.db3 file
from what i read it looks that AirNav tends to sell the products but do not care about the users afterwords - or did i miss something?
where can users download the current navdata.db3 files from?
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wojteksz,
That is a bit of a harsh comment, the fact we have replied to you on a sunday should indicate that is not the case.
This post has little to do with your issue. If you think you need a new navdata file the best thing to do is backup your data folder and then uninstall RadarBox and install again and copy the contents of your data folder back except the navdata files.
We also suggest you try RadarBox on another machine to confirm its not just a machine/user setup issue.