AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: viking9 on October 29, 2009, 07:38:32 AM
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Since my subscription to the network ceased I'm getting far more live aircraft and at greater range in Beta 3.07. I'm seeing an increase of some 30% aircraft and up to 614 messages/sec whereas I never saw more than 300 messages/sec before.
Tom
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Same here.
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Use the network seldom, but when using it, same overhere.
Is it because when you use the network, same planes received by more users..
so the user with more data updates "gets" the plane ????
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From what I can see, Version 3 is decoding more contacts.
I'm expecting delivery today of some fly leads so I can produce comparative screenshots between both versions and another receiver.
With version 3 there are approx 30% more "local" aircraft, both on the radar screen and list. And range appears to be increased too.
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What I'm referring to is an increase in live flights in addition to the increase of approx 30% provided by Beta 3.07.
Tom
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OK, understand.
So without shared traffic, you see 30% more local flights using beta 3.07 than you were seeing using the same version when sharing data?
Was the subscription for live data or delayed?
Assuming the "extra" flights were there before, I guess they were shown as shared?
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Since my subscription to the network ceased I'm getting far more live aircraft and at greater range in Beta 3.07. I'm seeing an increase of some 30% aircraft and up to 614 messages/sec whereas I never saw more than 300 messages/sec before.
Tom
hi viking.
Yes same here its been discussed before.
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=3417.msg32661#msg32661
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=2025.15
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=3504.msg33852#msg33852
from pat
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Thanks Pat.
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So, are the aircraft that are missing when the network is enabled the same aircraft as those coming in over the network?
I know that Tom will not be able to compare unless he has subscribed to network again.
If I get time I'll see if the same thing happens to my setup
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ive noticed message count and number of aircraft decrease when i have the network selected had this on 3.01 onwards upto and including 3.07
paul
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Since my subscription to the network ceased I'm getting far more live aircraft and at greater range in Beta 3.07.
Hi Tom,
I tryed to understand what you are saying here but I do not until sofar. Recieving a/c by your own setup (via the antenna) AND recieving a/c by the network (via the WWW) are two different things, I thought until now.
How can affect the one the other?
My starting point is that if I "Proces Hardware Flight" AND "Connect to network" at the same time, flights who are coming in through my own setup are going before networkflights.
So, if my neighbour should share his data I will not see his flights on my screen when I am operating with both options on........?????????
Hope made my self clear.
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I tryed to understand what you are saying here but I do not until sofar. Recieving a/c by your own setup (via the antenna) AND recieving a/c by the network (via the WWW) are two different things, I thought until now.
How can affect the one the other?
My starting point is that if I "Proces Hardware Flight" AND "Connect to network" at the same time, flights who are coming in through my own setup are going before networkflights.
That would appear to be a reasonable assumption, but it doesn't seem to match the experiences that users are reporting.
Although the subject has come up in several threads, I don't think we've yet seem a definitive explanation for why it's happening, which would suggest that a fix isn't imminent.
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That would appear to be a reasonable assumption, but it doesn't seem to match the experiences that users are reporting.
Although the subject has come up in several threads, I don't think we've yet seem a definitive explanation for why it's happening, which would suggest that a fix isn't imminent.
As I still have a few days of free Network service left, I've been putting the question to the test and I can't say I've come up with any figures to support the suggestion.
I have been unable to identify any instances of appreciable increase/decrease in MyFlight numbers when switching Network on/off that could be categorically attributed to the change. Certainly no pattern has emerged and I would suggest that it is patterns we are looking for.
Viewed in the context of "MyFlights" numbers that frequently change quite readily and quite radically (10/10 timeout setting) any concrete conclusions are very difficult to arrive at.
For me this case is "not proven".
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This has been mentioned a few times by customers and we have looked at our selves many times, but can't see any data proof to confirm this.
We put it down to how our brain works :) Its easy to work out a plot map in our mind when there is a less aircraft on the screen, when the network is on its a bit more chaotic and its hard to judge.
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based on my own personal experience: 2nd post, the first did not get through for some strange reason.
there is a user in olbia that when he turns on his rb, "captures" some aircraft from positions seen by me normally without network turned on, it seems that the network has precedence over "my flights", so i see less on my flights and more network flights in marginal areas that overlap as direct reception zones. i don't know if the same happens to him when i am on
ciao
frank
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The only issue which would cause an affect, is if your computer is struggling to cope with the network it will be overloaded and hence start to miss mesages being sent by the RB.
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This has been mentioned a few times by customers and we have looked at our selves many times, but can't see any data proof to confirm this.
We put it down to how our brain works :) Its easy to work out a plot map in our mind when there is a less aircraft on the screen, when the network is on its a bit more chaotic and its hard to judge.
Well, if My Flights shows a smaller number of entries with network enabled then the assessment of the map display is not relevant.
As to the comment about the PC struggling to decode all the messages, please could people suffering this problem indicate their PC specs, OS version, processor speed and RAM should be sufficient.
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i have a dual core duo 3.2 mhz, a nvidia card with 1 gig ram on board , vista utlimate 4 gigs ram 2x1 terabyte sata disks, it should not and does not struggle with rb now i have the 3.7 release. cpu usage is less than 10% usually and memory less than 25%, with a previous version of anrb the program did respond slowly and sometimes hang but now it's ok and has a faster response than before. the only thing that is slow is probably my network which promises up to 10mbits/sec but is usualy less than 10% of what is promised. as measured with speedtest.
ciao
frank
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Surely this is something that AirNav should be able to replicate, especially as a number of customers are reporting the same experience?
I don't subscribe to the network, so I can't replicate.
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Since my subscription to the network ceased I'm getting far more live aircraft and at greater range in Beta 3.07. I'm seeing an increase of some 30% aircraft and up to 614 messages/sec whereas I never saw more than 300 messages/sec before.
Tom
Same here.
I've not tested this, and I only bought my RB at the beginning of this month, so have little experience of RB. But have been using and programming personal computers for over 30 years. In 1978 I had a box connected between a radio and an 8KB, CBM PET which displayed the received data.
I would like to know in outline, how the RB system works. This would help in understanding problems that I and others experience.
I suspect that the black box is multi-part. It has a receiver and probably a decoder, but this may be done in software on the PC. There is also a dongle within the black box as the program wont display internet data without a connected RB. (For young readers, a dongle was hardware connected to a PC port to protect a program from running without paying for it.)
When I first saw the high number of msgs/Sec my immediate concern was the high number and how could so many packets be processed in that time. I don't know the size of these packets so was unable to do the math, but it looks to be to be too high a number for all to be processed every second.
So is this why there are so many faults reported by users? The PC is unable to handle everything.
The RB program has to:-
1. react to user input
2. react to black box data
3. react to internet data.
4. update the list
5. update the map
6. select and display alerts.
7. keep MyLog updated
8. handle the various outputs to ports
etc.
All these are probably in separate threads, so which have higher priority?
If the data is decoded in the black box, does it have a buffer, so that data that can't be accepted by the program, is not lost?
Clearly the company relies heavily on it's customers to provide debugging support and there is nothing wrong in this, providing the released version (V-2.01 today) works satisfactorily. I leave users to make their own decision on that point! Perhaps if more information about how the system (black box & program) works was available, then customers would be better able to report on problems experienced.
As Windows is a multitasking OS, then the processor has to continue with other programs in the background.
So are the 'Requirements' as printed on the sales box realistic? I would suggest they are probably wrong, unless RB is the only program running (apart from internet protection software).
This PC is less that a year old. It arrived with Vista partly installed, so I completed that and immediately 'upgraded' to XP Pro with the supplied OEM disks. It has an Intel Core2 Duo CPU running at 2.6GHz and has 1.7GB of 2.60GHz RAM. But it is not a 'games' PC with a fast screen controller.
I've now given up running RB while doing other work on the PC as the frequent delays caused by RB are too annoying.
So are live packets received by radio lost due to the lack of a data buffer?
This bottleneck in processing could also be the reason for other problems such as I reported in another thread here whereby aircraft that cause an 'Alert' to pop-up are not listed on the main screen and then fly 200 feet overhead a few moments latter?
Reg
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I've just connected my RB to my old PC to conduct some tests. It's running 3.06 and not 2.01 used to make my previous posting.
It's my previous desktop also running XP, but it's cluttered with many programs and has a registry full of redundant stuff. I intent to reformat the HD and install XP from CD. Then it will become my RB only PC, but unfortunately has a wide screen, which implies a low height so the displayed list is rather short.
The program was running prior to connecting the black box (to confirm the dongle) and immediately the AirNav Systems advert with revolving radar image caught they eye - only thing moving!
It was rotating at full speed without any pauses. Connecting the box and the pauses were frequent, as expected while the data set was filled.
I then removed the tick from the 'Process Hardware Flights' box and there was no perceived change in the rate of delays in the radar rotation. I replaced the tick and again no perceived change.
I then in 'Preferences ¦ RadarBox' removed the tick in the 'Share Flight Data' box. There was a very significant reduction ion delays in the rotating radar display.
Interesting.....
Reg.
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Reg,
No time to read your extensive post in detail at the moment, but the only time I've ever had any issues with 'Share Data' selected and the RB software struggling was with a very early version of the software and an intermittent mobile 3G Broadband connection or with no Internet connection at all.
I have absolutely no slow-downs now with 'Share Data' selected on any of my laptops/PS's.
Off to bed now, I'll read this again tomorrow.
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Another aspect on these problems. I understand that priority is given to local packets over internet packets. So that the list and map display your data in preference to internet data.
Is the time of a packet important here?
I've just had an alert and noticed that the time given was in the future. I have a radio controlled clock displaying UK time and another displaying German time (GMT+1). These are always in sync and supported by GPSrs when ever I check.
As my old PC has not been switched on for a few days, it's clock is running fast.
The PC clock is used to date/time stamp my local data. So the data I share will also have a wrong date/data stamp. Presumably when shared it will also be incorrect.
Reg.
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I have now idea how or why the network should affect live flights but some time ago, many users reported that aircraft appearing on the network would not then be seen in MyFlights for some considerable time after they came in range of a station. Perhaps this could be part of the same phenomenon.
All I know is that I'm now regularly seeing more live aircraft at greater range and up to twice the number of messages/sec than I did when I had the network on. I have never, ever previously seen message counts of 400-600 messages/sec in the year I have had the RB. Previously my absolute max was 300 messages/sec.
For AirNav - I'm not getting confused by the number of aircraft on the map; I'm taking the number of ac shown in MyFlights. No probs with processing power here either - Intel Core2Quad Q8200 CPU at 2.33GHz; 4 GB DDR2 RAM @ 800MHz. 8Mb broadband running at 7 Mb most of the time.
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Ok lets try and put this to rest.
1.) Having the network on does NOT affect the local flights you pick up. Any local flights will always take priority over network. Messages from the RadarBox are received all the time where as the network is downloaded at a specific interval so they won't affect each other.
However if your machine is struggling to cope with the network by causing slow downs this means the software and your machine is playing catch up and weird results may occur as data is read but already timed out while being in the buffer. This should not happen on machines bought in the last few years, if it check your anti virus settings and use the latest beta. (Have a search on the forum for more tips)
2.) Sharing Data has no affect on the performance either. This is a very small process compared to the rest of the software and any indication that is causing an issue is totally wrong.
Reg,
Regarding your post about the network time, that shouldn't be a issue. We don't want to go in lots of detail about the network or the software process to protect both the network and software in terms of hack attempts. I hope you understand that.
Having said that a few of the answers to your questions are below:
RadarBox Hardware decoded the messages and sends to the software via USB.
Messages - Messages are quite small which are sent and lots are repetitions. The number in brackets is a compressed version of the messages which are actually important.
A lot of our customers and our test machines are quite old and they don't have an issue. You may have been unlucky with version 2 but the latest beta should mean those slow downs don't occur.
Hope that helps.
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Having the network on does NOT affect the local flights you pick up. Any local flights will always take priority over network. Messages from the RadarBox are received all the time where as the network is downloaded at a specific interval so they won't affect each other.
However if your machine is struggling to cope with the network by causing slow downs this means the software and your machine is playing catch up and weird results may occur as data is read but already timed out while being in the buffer. This should not happen on machines bought in the last few years.
A lot of our customers and our test machines are quite old and they don't have an issue. You may have been unlucky with version 2 but the latest beta should mean those slow downs don't occur.
Thanks.
Back to Tom's original point. Are you suggesting that he is only seeing more local flights using Version 3.07 because he has a below spec PC? If so, what is the minimum spec to run ANRB and see all the local flights when sharing, assuming no other software is running?
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Im running RB Beta 3.07 on my 4 year old Dell Inspirion 6000 Laptop. A lowly 1.6Ghz, 500Mb Ram, pretty average Intel graphics card and XP (service pack 3).
Works great. No problems.
It's not really handling huge amounts of data or graphics. (Try Flight Simulator for that).
Cheers,
Paul
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this not being my case i will control with my polar diagram when the olbia user logs on to see if he "steals" my flights.
ciao
frank
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Im running RB Beta 3.07 on my 4 year old Dell Inspirion 6000 Laptop. A lowly 1.6Ghz, 500Mb Ram, pretty average Intel graphics card and XP (service pack 3).
Works great. No problems.
It's not really handling huge amounts of data or graphics. (Try Flight Simulator for that).
Cheers,
Paul
hi paul.S
Same here i have two laptops one small specs and the other i got new about 3 weeks ago and my home computer, my airnav works great on them all, but i notice on this thread their one individual who is hell is bend on taking our airnav box down into the gutter, give us a break.
from pat getting fed up with his antics.
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Hi Pat.
Yes, RB runs just fine on my low spec machine.
I might buy a better, faster laptop one day. Hey, I might even upgrade to Windows 7 ??? Hmmm... then again, I probably won't! :)
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Hi Pat.
Yes, RB runs just fine on my low spec machine.
I might buy a better, faster laptop one day. Hey, I might even upgrade to Windows 7 ??? Hmmm... then again, I doubt it! :)
hi paul
My laptop was Vista now back to windows xp.
no way would i use vista.
from pat
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Hi Pat,
My motto is; 'If it aint broke, don't fix it'.
I have been using XP for years now with no problems.
I see all these people having major issues with Vista (and now Windows 7) just so they can have a 'prettier', sexier looking interface. That's what it boils down to in my opinion. All piss n' wind.
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Same here i have two laptops one small specs and the other i got new about 3 weeks ago and my home computer, my airnav works great on them all, but i notice on this thread their one individual who is hell is bend on taking our airnav box down into the gutter, give us a break.
from pat getting fed up with his antics.
Pat, are you referring to me? If so you are missing the point. I am very pleased with my RB, if I were not I would have ditched it long ago. In fact I actively promote AirNav by having their logo and a continuous radar map display on my website and by giving presentations on ADS-B and the RB to organisations such as the Royal Air Force Association, U3A, Air Cadets and others. I'm currently arranging to show it to an Army Air Corps TA unit. So, anti-RB I am not!
The fact that I'm seeing more live flights without the network is good news for me as I am more interested in mode-s military flights than full ADS-B aluminium tubes carrying civilian pax. I merely offered the information as a discussion point and because a similar phenomenon was reported by a number of users in the past i.e. flights not crossing from the network to MyFlights when they came within range of the users antenna. Sadly I've not been able to find the relevant topics using the search engine on this forum but I'm sure someone at AirNAv must remember them.
As for your pain at reading my posts Pat, there's a simple solution; don't read them if you find them painful. I'm also from Ireland Pat - from Dublin. But I left in the mid '50s. Since then I spent over 33 years in aviation, as aircrew and as an aircraft engineer. I then spent some 23 years in IT. So I feel qualified enough to discuss the RB here without some 'cultie' getting uptight about it.
Slainte,
Tom
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Same here i have two laptops one small specs and the other i got new about 3 weeks ago and my home computer, my airnav works great on them all, but i notice on this thread their one individual who is hell is bend on taking our airnav box down into the gutter, give us a break.
from pat getting fed up with his antics.
Pat, are you referring to me? If so you are missing the point. I am very pleased with my RB, if I were not I would have ditched it long ago. In fact I actively promote AirNav by having their logo and a continuous radar map display on my website and by giving presentations on ADS-B and the RB to organisations such as the Royal Air Force Association, U3A, Air Cadets and others. I'm currently arranging to show it to an Army Air Corps TA unit. So, anti-RB I am not!
The fact that I'm seeing more live flights without the network is good news for me as I am more interested in mode-s military flights than full ADS-B aluminium tubes carrying civilian pax. I merely offered the information as a discussion point and because a similar phenomenon was reported by a number of users in the past i.e. flights not crossing from the network to MyFlights when they came within range of the users antenna. Sadly I've not been able to find the relevant topics using the search engine on this forum but I'm sure someone at AirNAv must remember them.
As for your pain at reading my posts Pat, there's a simple solution; don't read them if you find them painful. I'm also from Ireland Pat - from Dublin. But I left in the mid '50s. Since then I spent over 33 years in aviation, as aircrew and as an aircraft engineer. I then spent some 23 years in IT. So I feel qualified enough to discuss the RB here without some 'cultie' getting uptight about it.
Slainte,
Tom
hi TOM
But Tom not you, you jump to soon kid. was referring to anmer antics
sorry about that.
from pat
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Pat,
My apologies.
Tom
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Pat,
My apologies.
Tom
TOM.
Its me that has to apologies sorry
from pat
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hi TOM
But Tom not you, you jump to soon kid. was referring to anmer antics
sorry about that.
from pat
And pray Pat, what antics are those?
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Regarding MikeC earlier post.
RadarBox can happily run on low end machines without out the network. We have a machines in London which are only P4 2Ghz which is 5 years + old and it can happily pick up 200 miles around London Traffic with any issue.
You have mentioned sharing, sharing does not affect the cpu cycles, it is only 2% of the process that RB requires. Anyone spreading such information that this is causing an issue is totally wrong and a myth. We will come down harshly on those who continue to suggest this as we suspect its being done to cause damage to RadarBox.
Turning on the network, means every 20/30 seconds, the software now has to process 800+ extra flights very quickly. Of course this put pressure on any system.
RadarBox software is different to other software in terms of it depends on various conditions, such as the amount of traffic your receiving, what options you have turned, your database size etc..
RadarBox has been run on very low end machines (500mhz less) used just for data purposes and its works very well.
Going back to the point of this thread we have over 3000 customers now and most have used the network. If there was such a serious issue it would have caught by now and mentioned a lot but the reality is that isn't the case.
In Viking9 case, we can only point at whether other software was running in the background causing RB to slow down or whether its just different weather has improved reception lately since his network expired. We have done extensive tests indoor and our beta team and we never found the network having any degradation of local flights being picked up.
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Thanks AirNav.
As I read the response, shared (network) flights should not take precedence over local flights in normal circumstances. If they do, it is put down to either a low spec PC or one under strain running other applications?
Clearly Tom (Viking9) can't test this as he no longer has access to network flights.
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I got curious about this thread, so I've just done a very unscientific 'finger in the air' type of test by switching off the Network processing and watching the numbers. This test was only over about 3 minutes, most of which was with the Network switched off and with the figures written down every now and then.
MyFlights/Network
34/976 - fairly constant this Sunday morning
33/0 - Network processing switched off
30/0
30/0
30/0
28/0
28/0
32/863 - Network processing switched on again
32/887
33/916
31/937
This reflects what I've seen in the past regarding MyFlights v Network loading. As I said, only a very brief test, but interesting none the less.
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MikeC,
As we have said, we never seen a case of that happening so we cannot say why it happened.
In Vikings9 case as he can't now compare we put it down change in weather conditions etc.. nothing to do with the software. We have seen nothing to indicate from our tests and beta users tests to indicate a software issue.
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Two short video clips added to the AirNav Team YouTube Channel to show the affect of deselecting Network processing - no affect at all!
http://www.youtube.com/user/AirNavTeam
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http://www.youtube.com/user/AirNavTeam
[/quote]Two short video clips added to the AirNav Team YouTube Channel to show the affect of deselecting Network processing - no affect at all!
http://www.youtube.com/user/AirNavTeam
Aw c'mon you guys. Have you been at the funny fags? That blurry amateur video proves nothing of the sort. One cannot distinguish live from network aircraft in that clip and even if one could it would prove absolutely nothing. What a pathetically unscientific piece of "evidence".
I have no axe to grind except that I do not like to be called a liar. Since my network subscription ended, the number of live aircraft seen has dramatically increased, the average number of messages/sec has dramatically increased and my polar diagram has grown considerably.
Got it?
And for Allocator - could you please point me to where in my posts on this subject I mentioned "Network loading". I have not suggested any link to network loading - rather I have suggested a link to a similar phenomenon that was reported by a number of others -the fact that when aircraft are shown on the network they are not shown in Myflights when they pass into range of the local antenna.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/AirNavTeam
Two short video clips added to the AirNav Team YouTube Channel to show the affect of deselecting Network processing - no affect at all!
http://www.youtube.com/user/AirNavTeam
Aw c'mon you guys. Have you been at the funny fags? That blurry amateur video proves nothing of the sort. One cannot distinguish live from network aircraft in that clip and even if one could it would prove absolutely nothing. What a pathetically unscientific piece of "evidence".
I have no axe to grind except that I do not like to be called a liar. Since my network subscription ended, the number of live aircraft seen has dramatically increased, the average number of messages/sec has dramatically increased and my polar diagram has grown considerably.
Got it?
[/quote]
hi viking9.
This topic is on going for a long time, its something i accept, i have known about it one week after i got my airnav box, if you remember viking9 at the start of year airnav had big problems with the network being down, everybody notice that when the network was of, flights where slightly up and posted comments about it at the time.
all the best pat
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Pat, thanks for that. I've been trying to find previous posts about that but the search engine is not bringing them up.
Tom
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Tom, I can see the video fine. Select Full Screen mode and then HD and it's all crystal clear. You are right, it's only a short clip, but how else would you like to see this demonstrated? The traffic I see in MyFlights can vary dramatically from day to day - to the point where I've checked to see if my antenna is still connected to RB, and looked out of the window to see if it's still on the end of its pole!
Have another look and see what you think. I don't think that there is any intent to call you a liar - take it easy man :-)
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Allocator,
Even in HD the clip is too short to prove anything. My polar diagram has grown over many days.
Anyway, I've had enough of this. I shall comment no further. I'm off back to tracking non-positional aircraft on another "World Wide" tracking network which even allows one to record non-positional network flights and records squawk details in reports, something which AirNav seem to find impossible to do.
Ciao,
Tom
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Enjoy PlanePlotter. Give Bev my regards, I worked very closely with him testing PP for the SBS-1 and RB a while ago.
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We haven't called you a liar either Viking9. Your initial post suggested that you were receiving double the amount of the messages after the network has been switched off.
That is a massive difference and its definitely not something we have seen or beta users have seen. If there wasn't any axe to grind your last post doesn't seem to match up to that.
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My polar diagram has grown over many days.
Isn't it just as likely that reception conditions have improved, or just more aircraft are flying over your area?
I have days where I only see <10 aircraft locally, and others when there's >40 on the list.
I've never seen any examples of network aircraft "interfering" in some way with hardware aircraft. Of course, a lot can depend on your timeout settings!!
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This is getting all rather silly, why all the throwing the toys out the pram. You would think you would be rather happy at getting more aircraft on your box, whats the problem.
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This is getting all rather silly, why all the throwing the toys out the pram. You would think you would be rather happy at getting more aircraft on your box, whats the problem.
Thank you for your equally unhelpful input. Once again I would recommend you and others read my posts. Did I say I was unhappy with the increased number of flights? I think not.
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Isn't it just as likely that reception conditions have improved, or just more aircraft are flying over your area?
I have days where I only see <10 aircraft locally, and others when there's >40 on the list.
I've never seen any examples of network aircraft "interfering" in some way with hardware aircraft. Of course, a lot can depend on your timeout settings!!
Tarbat,
You should know by now that I'm pretty savvy and have tried various time-out settings etc. There is no point in comparing your location with mine. If I had less than 500 live flights a day detected I would be sending my box back for investigation. On an average day I pick up more than 30 USAF live flights alone. So - no comparison.
Anyway - I'm getting tired of this thread as I've had little constructive contribution - so I'll stop contributing to it now and just bask in my good luck.
Tom
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Pat, thanks for that. I've been trying to find previous posts about that but the search engine is not bringing them up.
Tom
I would support Tom in his comments. He has made a reasonable observation and AirNav have dismissed his observation, effectively using a software developers reply, I first heard about 20years ago. "That's never been reported before."
As a radio ham for 40 years, I would accept that weather conditions can play a big part, but when that's used in the sentence that starts, "as he can't now compare". That does not appear to be a reasonable response.
As a 'new boy' here, I have been trying to accept that AirNav postings are knowledge driven, but when I see:-
Two short video clips added to the AirNav Team YouTube Channel to show the affect of deselecting Network processing - no affect at all!
Yes it is ...
a pathetically unscientific piece of "evidence".
Perhaps this junior team member needs some advice from more experienced members of his team.
Most of us who post here, do it to IMPROVE the product, not only for ourselves but for AirNav and it's future customers.
Reg.
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Low in forum post count numbers maybe, but certainly not 'junior' ;-)
Thank you for your comments Reg, however, I'm certainly not prepared to enter into an argument here - just stating facts. I've only been a Radio Amateur for 27 years myself, so I bow to your superior experience :-)
AirNav Team - ready to help all RB users, even on a Sunday evening!
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Airnav Team Jr member - if you are the new "mouthpiece" for the Airnav team, I must say I approve of your obvious command of grammar and spelling - a refreshing change from that of your erstwhile colleagues. Perhaps with more reasoned, carefully worded responses to posts made by the users of your products, there may be a little less heat in this forum all round.
DC
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Since my network subscription ended .... my polar diagram has grown considerably.
I started to type my last posting and then left my keyboard when I was needed elsewhere. After sending I read the other posts.
No one has (unless I missed it) commented on the polar diagram, which possibly is a better indicator of what has occurred.
With the strong winds this weekend, the trees have lost many leaves. So it is possible that this has increased the range of signals received. So has anyone else seen an increase in their polar diagram?
But I have compared my own polar diagrams.
On this PC I've got out of the box 2.01 and it causes too much slowing down to be able to reasonably use other programs (not other programs slowing down RB as posted by another), so I've now stopped using it. This means that it's old polar diagram is still visible on screen.
On my older PC, I installed 3.06, but only used it for a short time as I experienced no improvements over 2.01. But I'm now back to using it as a RB only PC. This means that it's current polar diagram is also visible on it's screen.
There is no significant difference between the two, side by side. Suggesting that weather conditions are not a significant factor.
I am also possibly the closest RB user to Tom, (although I have never met him) and therefore it's reasonable that my polar diagram should also have increased range, even if only slightly. It has not. My RB is always networked, but when during the week traffic levels increase, I will conduct some tests.
Reg.
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I wasn't going to mention it but as the subject came up - I too was a licensed radio amateur for more than 30 years. Callsigns; G4GYC, EI9DI and 5B4DT. When in Cyprus with the UN in 1996 to 1998 I took a modest part in 2m transequatorial propogation experiments with Ray Cracknell in South Africa and Roland Whiting in Cyprus. I worked over 130 countries on HF with just a G5RV, so I do know a little about wx and RF propogation.
BTW, the past few days have seen poorer than usual comms in the aircraft vhf/uhf bands at my location whilst my polar diagram has continued to expand.
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Low in forum post count numbers maybe, but certainly not 'junior' ;-)
Thank you for your comments Reg, however, I'm certainly not prepared to enter into an argument here - just stating facts. I've only been a Radio Amateur for 27 years myself, so I bow to your superior experience :-)
AirNav Team - ready to help all RB users, even on a Sunday evening!
With 5 stars, I took "Jr. Member" as being attached to and part of the line above. So it's good to have an experienced team member working on a Sunday.
Science is a series of observations that lead to a better understanding, which become facts.
I would guess that your ham radio experience maybe similar to mine. I mentioned my ham radio years as a citation. Too many folk make postings saying what they think rather than what they know. Not just here but generally.
So I'll add a SIG taken from elsewhere.
Reg.
A word of advice to those trying to rationally debate with those who "believe" as opposed to know: don't. It's been tried many times before, and those caught within an ideology will twist and turn any fact not compatible with their belief. - Carlos
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And of course it's good to remember the old adage:
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Tom
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You guys have to remember as well this is not an easy job either :)
Anything we say is scrutinised and as you all know words on a page can be taken in different ways. We are here trying to communicate with people also who's first language is not English so things do get misinterpreted. We also do have to reply to many questions in a day, to those who say we are not replying perfectly, believe us if you were in our position you would realise its not as easy as it looks.
Not to mention there are people on the forum who are representing competitors who are just on the look out for posts to latch on to cause trouble. We are not naming names or pointing fingers at someone so please don't get upset.
We can easily go into hiding and not answer any hard questions like our competitors do but we don't we put ourselves out here for good and bad.
Remember that many users read the forum from beginners to people with inside knowledge of ADS-B and computers. Threads like this can easily confuse people into thinking its an issue.
The bigger picture is actually only one person has mentioned this affect and its likely in that case its nothing to do with the software. As we mentioned we didn't ignore the post and we tested ourselves and we didn't find anything.
If we start to investigate every issue a customer mentions we will be here forever. In reality 80%+ or so of issues we get are usually customer error, computer issues or antenna issues.
Hope that explains things and our view.
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support have i been gagged? or is there a problem with the board? an honest answer please.
i can't find my last two posts
cia
frank
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Sorry, we meant to say add them to your thread you created about grounding. Do not hijack other peoples threads.
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can you do it for me as i have to rewrite again the 2 mex not having saved a hard copy
i did not mean to hijack other peoples threads, i honestly thought it was relevant
frank
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Sorry we don't have a copy, you mentioned in your post to delete it if it was not relevant.
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no i said moderators can move them if they want to, not delete them. please do not put into my mouth words i have not said, again you are starting to insult me. will you never learn?
now gag me again.
frank
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no i said moderators can move them if they want to, not delete them. please do not put into my mouth words i have not said, again you are starting to insult me. will you never learn?
now gag me again.
frank
Perfect example of why our job is not easy and how things get lost in translation.
Just to clarify your posts had nothing to do with this thread, you have your own thread. You should have posted there, We also cannot move individuals posts hence why they had to be deleted only.
Lastly we have NOT insulted you.
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And of course it's good to remember the old adage:
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Tom
hi viking9.
And theirs me thinking we where going to get an answer to our question viking9,
my post still stand if you switch of your network you get sightly more flights why?
but we ended up getting hijack with childish posts.
from pat
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no,you have not insulted me, you have just lied to me about what i wrote.
tell me if it not an insult. there was nothing to translate, the messages were written in plain, clear, simple english. if you have a problem in translating programs, have someone else translate them for you before you do something wrong, like i said airnav's customer support has a lot to learn. you are the worst example of customer support i have ever met. sorry to say that but it is the truth, at least from my point of view
frank
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pat it is my point of view that i get slightly more flights when network is disconnected but i have not had a convincing reply yet
so my first post still stands
frank
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Ok Sterigia lets agree to disagree. There is a lot we can say about your post especially when you mention translation but we won't.
Why do we get the feeling a few people in this thread (usually the same ones) are looking for the slightest thing and then to blow it out of proportion.
Lets stop some of these games and infighting and get on with discussions around the product.
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well say it for honesty's sake then
i look forward to seeing what you have to say
on my part i do not like to be insulted especially from support, that is why i answer back.
i am on the whole satisfied enough with the product but not with customer support, like i said before, so i will not repeat myself
frank
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Sterigia,
We have NOT insulted you. It was a simple misunderstanding caused by you posting in the wrong place and you have now blown it out of propertion. Similar to what you did last time when we said something about your post.
Now lets end this here and stay back on the title of the thread.
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yes let's end it here. the strange thing is that "simple misunderstandings" happen always to the same persons. must be my bad english. yes i do react in the same way to the same things. it is my character.
sometimes i get good answers from support, sometimes you lie, that is what you call a simple misunderstanding but i do feel insulted. end of postings on the subject
remember i have screenshots of all my postings
frank
goodnight. i have no more time to waste with support as i have work to do now. you are a hopeless case.
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Just for the record. I saw sterigia's post before Airnav deleted them. He did say if they are inappropriate in this thread can Airnav move them.
English is a common language shared by a lot of people who don't understand it. Just like the USA and the UK!
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I'm loving my Airnav RadarBox. It seems a more complete solution, Just saying!
Airnav please move this post if it's inappropriate in this thread!
I really mean my comment.
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Sorry my bad! Stergia said "Can Airnav move them and then delete them" As I say English can be missunderstood! I think Airnav acted in good faith here!
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We also cannot move individuals posts hence why they had to be deleted only.
Thats not quite correct:
Split the post from the thread then move.
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This thread has gone WAY off topic. There is now no longer ANY discussion about the subject, it has now become another attack on ArNav and/or a discussion on technical functions of the forum - hey ho!!!!!
Hello Hamish, you don't post often, but when you do ......
Can we get back on topic or just lock this thread.
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Just trying to be helpful
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Anyone got any tips for the Melbourne Cup ?
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No, don't do horses.
But, since I have a suspicion that all of the un-highlighting, displaying of incorrect pictures, wrong range and bearing etc is all closely related, I was wondering if Airnav can comment on how they're getting on with tracking down these sorts of issues.
Can those of us that see the problems provide any better information than we already have? It's been a month or so since the last official beta release so I think it's fair to ask if any progress is being made on this.
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Hi Brian,
Just being a tad sarcastic. I don't do horses either.
But I am also interested in those issues you point out.
Perhaps we need to start a fresh thread.
Cheers,
Paul.
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This thread has gone WAY off topic. There is now no longer ANY discussion about the subject, it has now become another attack on ArNav and/or a discussion on technical functions of the forum - hey ho!!!!!
Hello Hamish, you don't post often, but when you do ......
Can we get back on topic or just lock this thread.
hi Allocator
100% right, people will get fed up with him and his partner playing their silly games
on this site,
from pat
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people will get fed up with him and his partner playing their silly games on this site,
from pat
Absolutely, Pat.
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Maybe I just don't check the forums often enough, but with all the off-topic chatter on this thread, I've lost track of who has what problem. Maybe it's time for someone to summarise the situation:
- Who experiences the problem
- What steps have those experiencing the problem taken to identify a cause
- Etc.
The off-topic chatter simply serves to divert attention away from the real problem that some are seeing. Can you not pursue these off-topic discussions via. PMs?
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Maybe I just don't check the forums often enough, but with all the off-topic chatter on this thread, I've lost track of who has what problem. Maybe it's time for someone to summarise the situation:
- Who experiences the problem
- What steps have those experiencing the problem taken to identify a cause
- Etc.
A quick precis then:
Problems I see are:
1) Aircraft highlights disappear. Time from a few seconds to a minute or so, happens without moving the cursor or selecting anything else.
2) Aircraft details shown for the wrong aircraft, photos in particular, can also be distance/bearing for "selected" aircraft, I have seen cases where the wrong aircraft's photos are showing that belong to another aircraft in My Flights while simultaneously the distance and bearing are from a random aircraft in Network Flights (my receiver can't see aircraft thousands of miles away).
3) Occasionally I will see an aircraft outside my polar diagram limits that is not showing as a network flight, but yet it only updates at the network update interval. Sometimes I have seen its details appear in My Flights, sometimes this does not happen. The polar diagram never updates, and indeed I have never seen any aircraft in this position or near it as a local flight.
Provoking this behaviour is not required, it just happens without me needing to do anything.
I run RB on a Vista SP2 Home Premium laptop, 2GB RAM, Core2Duo 1.73GHz. It doesn't have anything else running other than AVG 8.5 with scanning of the Airnav directories excepted.
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same things happen to me,
i am running vista ultimate dual core duo 3.2 mhz .nvidia card with 1 gig ram on board, 4 gig ram 2 x1 terabyte hdd sata norton internet security with autoprotect inhibited on airnav folder as wel as scanning inhibited in airnav folder, plus hdd temperature, snagit in tray
ciao
frank
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A quick precis then:
Sound like a very different problem to the original poster. I thought the problem was about getting more flights with the network turned off.
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A quick precis then:
Sound like a very different problem to the original poster. I thought the problem was about getting more flights with the network turned off.
And yet I thought it might be related because it seemed possible for network flights to appear as local, so I suspected that a mix-up between the two lists *could* cause a local flight to appear as a network flight.
I have no direct proof that this happens however.
To be honest, I've lost track of what is still not working properly in the beta, and there has not apparently been much progress in fixing it that we've been told about here.
Some sort of update from Airnav would be worthwhile, if they need more information, have been able to replicate these problems now, that sort of thing.
I'm sure they're as keen to get this cleared up and the software released as we are.
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i have the impression that i do actually get a few more flights with network turned off
which was the original topic. let's say i get 14 instead of the usual 8 but then again i have periods when nobody is in direct reach. i am in a low traffic area.
ciao
frank
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Fenris,
Don't worry work is still be done and we are playing with version 3.08 internally.