AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: Johnn on October 02, 2009, 07:49:16 PM
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Hi There,
I am just curious to get other peoples opinions on the real time network feature that has been recently released.
Is it only a 20 sec delay with this feature?
Many Thanks John
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Hi There,
I am just curious to get other peoples opinions on the real time network feature that has been recently released.
Is it only a 20 sec delay with this feature?
Many Thanks John
No, there is no delay at all, but the Network data is refreshed every 20 seconds.
This compared to the delayed Network data that is 5 minutes delayed and refreshes on the screen every 30 seconds.
Is it worth subscribing ..... oh yes it is!
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If you use your receiver for local spotting, it probably will not be useful. If you want to see what's flying over Saarbruken (etc), then it will be right up your alley.
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I disagree - there's a surprise :-)
Although I do occasionally watch traffic on the other side of the world, I'm usually watching traffic within 100 miles of my location so that I can listen to the radio chatter on my scanner. What the Network does for me is to give me enhanced coverage, especially coverage below my normal line of sight. Also, the new live network does mean that if I'm in a location where I can't get an antenna up - like in the office on mobile broadband - I can just watch Network traffic using the RB as a 'dongle' to make the software work. The only disadvantage is the 20 second update rate instead of the 4 second rate I normally use for live (antenna) traffic.
Edit: Here we go, 100% real-time Network traffic only, updating every 20 seconds :-) Hardware processing turned off. I could be in an underground bunker with an Internet connection and still see the same picture - lol
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Yes, I also find the real-time network great for filling in the gaps in my local coverage. Seeing aircraft on the ground at Inverness, for example, where my own coverage stops at about 1000ft ASL.
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I haven't tried the free trial yet - think I'll wait until I have a few days off work, and try it then. I agree with tarbat that filing in the gaps locally is an advantage. I am near heathrow and can see half of the Bovingdon stack, so I guess it would be handy for that - for obvious reasons the 5 minute delayed network is no help in this regard. I probably wouldn't gain much other benefit from the live network , so for me...is it worth the money just to allow me to see the complete stack. Probably not to be honest. I may change my opinion after trying the trial. We'll see.
Tarbat - Do you find the transition of flights from your own coverage to/from real time network seamless ?
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Tarbat - Do you find the transition of flights from your own coverage to/from real time network seamless ?
Almost seamless. You need to reduce your hardware timeouts to the absolute minimum to get the best transition. A couple of videos showing the transition during beta testing - albeit with the 30 second network and too long hardware timeouts - are on my Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiiLcJhjaOA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEJOHvQ4Bbw
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tarbat, what are you using for your timeout settings? I'm using:
30
60
120
240
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I drop hardware timeout to 23 / 7 when using the real-time network.
I have suggested to Airnav that RB could ignore the hide timeout when using the real-time network.
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Thanks for the videos - the transition looks pretty good I think.
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I drop hardware timeout to 23 / 7 when using the real-time network.
I have suggested to Airnav that RB could ignore the hide timeout when using the real-time network.
Sounds like it would be sensible to treat hardware timeouts differently when the network is enabled....
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A couple of videos showing the transition during beta testing - albeit with the 30 second network and too long hardware timeouts - are on my Youtube
Those seem pretty good Tarbat, I am quite impressed even with the wrong settings and 30 second updates.
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Can those in the know please clarify and publish the recommended timeout settings for Myflights and Real-time network.
I am sure others would benefit from leaving the settings at default.
J.
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Tarbat - Do you find the transition of flights from your own coverage to/from real time network seamless ?
Almost seamless. You need to reduce your hardware timeouts to the absolute minimum to get the best transition. A couple of videos showing the transition during beta testing - albeit with the 30 second network and too long hardware timeouts - are on my Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiiLcJhjaOA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEJOHvQ4Bbw
hi tarbat.
first video is really good, i like it, might go for it myself after seeing that.
from pat
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Hi I'd second Jermy's request re time out settings if anyone can assist please? The real time is superb so any suggested settings to assist/improve this would be very welcome.
I love how the fliights move from Network to my live cover now brilliant.
John
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Okay, my timout settings, when using the real-time network, are:
Hardware - 23 / 7
Network - 78 / 2
But so much depends on you local conditions, etc.
Seeing great transitions between local/network over the north atlantic routes at the moment ;)
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Assuming one is in a good signal area, as an a/c leaves it and times out surely one wants the network to take over a.s.a.p. so 5 secs should be suitable (then plus 20 secs for the network to react). Is the Hide figure counted from when the Mark figure expires? i.e. In your case, no signal from a live contact for 23 secs is marked followed by a further 7 secs before being hiden?
J.
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Assuming one is in a good signal area, as an a/c leaves it and times out surely one wants the network to take over a.s.a.p. so 5 secs should be suitable (then plus 20 secs for the network to react). Is the Hide figure counted from when the Mark figure expires? i.e. In your case, no signal from a live contact for 23 secs is marked followed by a further 7 secs before being hiden?
J.
If you make the Hardware time too short, then there is a risk of hopping backwards and forwards between live and Network. You want to give the live data processing a chance as even with real world radars, it's quite normal to loose the return for a couple of sweeps of the radar.
As I understand it, the hide figure is counted from the no signal figure.
I'm playing with the setting here, but it doesn't actually seem too critical unless you make the Network timeout figure less that the refresh rate which means that the tracks time out before the next update - makes sense.
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Just to clarify - the Hide figure starts counting when the Mark number is reached? i.e. if no signal is rxed for 20 secs then the flight disappears after a further 10 secs (settings at 20/10).?
I am watching Heathrow at the mo, all flights under 8000 ft. settings at default for network (35/60) on the real-time network. Every now and then all the network times out. MyFlights direct are OK.
Is this timeout working or the network failing?
J.
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tarbats settings don't work for me, as my Network tracks time out. I have to use 90 and 10 for the Network settings and then there is enough time to process all the traffic. tarbat lives in the frozen wastelands near the Arctic Circle (sorry Chris, a joke honest!) where traffic loading is lighter. I'm sure that the time taken to process the network data must be related to what you are trying to display on the screen.
Try 90 seconds and 10 seconds and see what happens.
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Still losing the network with 90/10 and I am assuming there is plenty of network coverage on Heathrow.
Airnav - can you advise on settings?
J.
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Yes, there is plenty of Network coverage around Heathrow.
Did you see any affect at all when you changed the setting? Have you tried longer settings to see the effect? Have you tried rebooting your PC to make sure that there isn't anything running in the background? Have you had any problems with the Network timeouts in the past?
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No - not seen much change.
Not yet.
Running on laptop and nothing else running.
Don't know.
What has changed is Real time network. There must be a change in recommended settings to allow for the 20 sec download and then processing time.
I am watching the run in to Heathrow at the moment and a/c are timing out on the realtime network 5-7 nm out. and back in again about 2 nm.
J.
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I paid for the update to access Live Data (non delay version) last night via the PayPal option. I've had an email come back to say my account is now active.
When I click account information, it still says my account has expired (from when my free time delayed network data ran out last month). Has anybody else payed with the PayPal option, does it need to be re-activated by AirNav or have I done something my end?
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Right, now I understand what you are saying (I think). My issue with the too short Network time-out is that if I set it for 78 seconds as per tarbat's setting, about 5 seconds before the next 20 second network update, ALL my network tracks time out and the network connection light goes yellow. Change my timeout setting to 90 seconds and all is OK.
You seem to be talking about something different here. Do you really mean that you are only watching the real-time network on finals for Heathrow, or do you mean that the tracks are going from live (antenna) to network and you are loosing them for 3 miles each time?
I'm watching Heathrow now using real-time network only, and I can see the aircraft all the way to the ground and in fact on the ground too.
If you clarify, we'll try and help.
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It has been activated. Make sure you login with the codes given to you on the CD not through your email. If you can't remember them email us.
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Right, I'll email you now then, do you need any information from me?
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We have pmed you :)
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Yep, got your PM and it works now, many thanks.
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Sorry guys,
Still don't get the point of real time network. For the last 40 years, I have been a planespotter, initially trudging along to my local airport with binoculars, notebook and sandwiches (no anorak!) in order to log aircraft 'personally' seen. The big change for me with the RB (a superb product) is that I no longer have to go to the airport but can log aircraft I have 'personally' seen flying/overflying my local area. With a live network you can track aircraft hundreds/thousands of miles away but, for me, these can't be classed as sightings as obviously you haven't personally seen them. A 5 minute delay network for me is fine as it can provide a good source of reference.
I only need to visit my local airport now if something good has appeared on the RB and a close up picture may be worthwhile.
I stress, of course, that this is just my personal planespotter view.
Ian
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Horses for courses Ian, nothing wrong with that. I think that AirNav got so tired with people asking why there was a 5-minute delay to the Network and also with the misapprehension by some that all the displayed data (including live data) was 5-minutes delayed, it was good business sense just to go for everything live if you wanted it.
Already somebody has asked the question is the ShipTrax data will be live or 5-minute delayed, so to some people it is very important.
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Right, now I understand what you are saying (I think). My issue with the too short Network time-out is that if I set it for 78 seconds as per tarbat's setting, about 5 seconds before the next 20 second network update, ALL my network tracks time out and the network connection light goes yellow. Change my timeout setting to 90 seconds and all is OK.
You seem to be talking about something different here. Do you really mean that you are only watching the real-time network on finals for Heathrow, or do you mean that the tracks are going from live (antenna) to network and you are loosing them for 3 miles each time?
I'm watching Heathrow now using real-time network only, and I can see the aircraft all the way to the ground and in fact on the ground too.
If you clarify, we'll try and help.
Interesting one isn't it!
I cannot see direct below about 4000ft at Heathrow as it is in a shadow so rely on the network below 4000Ft.
I have been trying to get a screen shot.
I think what is happening is Heathrow is on the limit of my range. I think my machine is suddenly seeing a signal direct and overiding the network, then timing out.
I will keep a close watch on it.
I tried to turn off MyFlights in the Advanced menu but Myflights were still displyed.
J.
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All you need to do to turn off MyFlights is to untick the Process Hardware Flights below the MyFlights aircraft photos :-)
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Horses for courses Ian, nothing wrong with that. I think that AirNav got so tired with people asking why there was a 5-minute delay to the Network and also with the misapprehension by some that all the displayed data (including live data) was 5-minutes delayed, it was good business sense just to go for everything live if you wanted it.
Already somebody has asked the question is the ShipTrax data will be live or 5-minute delayed, so to some people it is very important.
Agreed Allocator. Good to have 3 options now available:
1 - Local My Flights only.
2 - Local My flights plus 5 minute delay Network.
3 - Local My Flights plus live Network.
You get what you pay for. Suits all pockets !
Ian
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OK. So what does the Show MyFlights button do then?
J.
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Not a lot by the looks of it :-)
Left over from an earlier version of the software and not removed?
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I listen to a/c on final approach to Heathrow on 120.400. Is that the correct freq or is there another better one?
J.
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Register free on this website and do a search for Heathrow. Put all the frequencies in your scanner and then listen and learn :-) Heathrow has never been a 'one frequency' airport - the frequencies in use (and number of frequencies) will change as the traffic intensity changes
http://www.proma.org.uk/
Also do a search for London TMA and listen to these as well.
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Timeout is fine with Process hardware off so it must be something to do with a conflict with a direct signal.
Thanks for your help and discussion.
I must go and find some breakfast. I have been stuck in front of this screen all day!
J.
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Still don't get the point of real time network.....snip.....
I stress, of course, that this is just my personal planespotter view.
I take an entirely different view, I have never been a planespotter in that I am not interested in seeing an logging or photographing aircraft individually, or writing registrations anywhere at all.
What I am interested in is the flow patterns of traffic either locally or in remote places and the ability to investigate individual aircraft if I feel like it.
For me, the real-time networking is perfect because I dislike any distortion of reality, expecially for specious "official" reasons.
Naturally we're all allowed to decide our own path and pay, or not, for what we want.
Great isn't it? ;-)