AirNav Systems Forum

AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: bailey_uk on May 11, 2009, 09:55:55 PM

Title: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: bailey_uk on May 11, 2009, 09:55:55 PM
Hi folks, recently installed a new SSJ VHF antenna  for my Scanner, and well pleased with the reception, but unable to hear any ATC transmission, just aircraft.

I thought this would be the case, as I live a fair distance from any main airport.
If I turn the squelch right up, I can faintly hear some ATC transmissions on certain frequencies but definately not enough to make anything out. Is this a typical case of needing a pre amp?

I am unable to get my antenna any higher, as its already 10ft above the chimney, and used RG213u cable to my scanner. (14m).

Thanks

James
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: WAL 2T on May 11, 2009, 10:03:03 PM
James,

There is a possibility that a good quality masthead amplifier might help but I would be inclined to replace the feeder with Westflex, Ecoflex or similar low loss feeder if you were going to consider this measure. Don't bother with a preamp at the receive end of the feeder, you would be wasting your money.

hth
Chris

Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: bailey_uk on May 11, 2009, 10:08:37 PM
Ok cheers Chris, I bought the RG213u with the impression it was the best for VHF, and Westflex would be overkill and possibly the same loss, but I take it its not?

By the receive end, do you mean the scanner end? So it best to have the preamp connected to the base of the antenna or near?
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: WAL 2T on May 11, 2009, 10:17:25 PM
You need your preamp at the top of the mast next to the antenna unfortunately. The loss in your coax will be pulling the valuable signal closer the noise floor and placing an amplifier inside the house near the receiver will just have the effect of amplifying the noise as well as the signal which is already barely audible.

RG213 is ok under normal circumstances in that part of the VHF spectrum but in your case where every db at the antenna socket of your receiver counts the difference between RG213 and  a lower loss cable might just be the difference between hearing a readable signal or struggling to hear it.

Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: dudbaker on May 12, 2009, 08:55:04 AM
James

Your profile indicates you are in the Lake District.  How far from Great Dun Fell.  Try 125.475   126.6   and   128.675.  Also, 121.5 on that transmitter as well as some Mil UHF.

Dudley
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: bailey_uk on May 12, 2009, 09:41:12 AM
Thanks for the info guys, Yeh I have heard of Great Dun Fell, is it a repeater station?

The 125.475 was the one VHF frequency that I managed to receive the base station last night.
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: WAL 2T on May 12, 2009, 09:55:08 AM
Not repeaters in the strictest sense of the word but remote transmission/receiver locations. R/T for London, London Mil, Scottish, Shanwick and Manchester ACCs are all remotely operated from various hilltop sites around the UK. Great Dun Fell is closest to you of course. If you're near the coast you may be able to hear the Snaefell site on the IOM, key ones:

130.975 Scottish ACC Talla Low sector
133.050 Manchester ACC
282.125 London Mil
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: dudbaker on May 12, 2009, 10:00:58 AM
James

That frequency is also on Sneafell IOM.  If you are not getting 126.6 which is Volmet then may be you are getting Sneafell.  Try 133.05 for Manchester control.  These transmitters are sending from Swanwick, Manchester and Preswick

Dudley
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: WAL 2T on May 12, 2009, 12:01:47 PM
James,

Just wondering which ground stations you are hearing faintly, do you have the frequencies to hand? Might be worth considering a log periodic fixed in the direction of said station if feasible and you have room on your mast. LPs for VHF/UHF are relatively compact and efficient directional antennae widely used for commercial VHF applications. I've built a couple for 2m/70cm portable operation and they work very well indeed.
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: bailey_uk on May 12, 2009, 04:14:58 PM
126.6 seems to be there very faint, like you say VOLMET, like a continuous transmission,

Im pretty sure it was the 124.475, that I heard last night and it was Cessna 404 Titan, G-MIND, 400CAD, Requesting to Route via Dean Cross - Pole Hill and then onto Coventry at lowish level.

My house lies directly in the line of DCS and POL so looked out for it and saw it fly overhead.

Added the suggested frequencies and listening out.
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: dudbaker on May 13, 2009, 10:11:01 AM
Good

Now let us look at 126.6.  As it is transmitted from several sites it cannot be on the same frequency as other sites, as it will cause interference.  So try 5khz low and 5khz high to see if there is an improvement.  The system is called Climax. 

What ever happens you are now able to check radio and antenna system at any time because as you said it is continuous.

Try 118.775.  This is Manchester transmitted from Preston.  If you get this then there are 12 more.

Dudley
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: dca on May 13, 2009, 12:41:53 PM
Sticking with the theme of VHF transmissions a strange thing has happened to me recently. I'm located just to the south of LGW, great reception area with the Reigate, Ventnor & Warlingham transmitters within range. I also have a roof mounted antenna.
For some reason, I cannot now pick up the Swanick controllers for 126.07, 128.425 & 134.9 any longer- these used to be 3 of my strongest signals too. Even at full squelch open I hear no ATC now.
Does anyone know if the transmitter sites for these frequencies has been changed?
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: bailey_uk on May 13, 2009, 04:06:31 PM
Yep 118.775 is one of my favourites, appears to be the frequency used for slightly lower flights, around FL195 into Manchester from the north, flying over head my house.

(Irritating thing is that the lower flights as mentioned above seem be mainly the 'Jersy' call signs, which are the FlyBe DH8D's with no ADSB!
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: bailey_uk on May 13, 2009, 04:09:04 PM
Good

Now let us look at 126.6.  As it is transmitted from several sites it cannot be on the same frequency as other sites, as it will cause interference.  So try 5khz low and 5khz high to see if there is an improvement.  The system is called Climax. 
Dudley

Wow,. yes your right!

126.595 is coming through considerably stronger, however squelch is still needed!
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: WAL 2T on May 13, 2009, 04:19:15 PM
Yep 118.775 is one of my favourites, appears to be the frequency used for slightly lower flights, around FL195 into Manchester from the north, flying over head my house.

(Irritating thing is that the lower flights as mentioned above seem be mainly the 'Jersy' call signs, which are the FlyBe DH8D's with no ADSB!

Draw an imaginary box approximately North-South distance Honiley to Dean Cross then East - West DOLAS to LIFFY, that's Manchester ACC up to FL285
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: bailey_uk on May 13, 2009, 04:23:34 PM
Thats exactly how Id imagined it!
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: jonjorobb on May 14, 2009, 05:55:14 AM
it may be worth you checking my website - www.jonjorobb.netne.net/e107/ for information on the Preston transmitter, and which offsets its best heard on. Please note this is a new site, not yet complete.

Thanks,
Jonjo
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: bailey_uk on May 14, 2009, 09:15:53 AM
Wow, that site is exactly what Ive been looking for, after 10 years of making my own assumptions of what sectors are where and corrosponding frequncies.

Will be checking back regularly! Good work!

Quote from the site 'Ever wondered where FIWUD is?'

Hehe I was the same when I first started Airband scanning, wondering where Margo was, after hearing it so many times with northbound traffic heading over the borders!
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: jonjorobb on May 14, 2009, 03:20:44 PM
Thanks! - will put some more maps up, but the Waypoints are gonna take a while, updating them all!

Thanks,
Jonjo
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: daveg4otu on May 14, 2009, 03:51:20 PM
Does anyone here have any info on UHF freqs used by mil traffic  overflying the SW of England (Cornwall Deven etc)?
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: dca on June 01, 2009, 08:47:41 AM
Great website Jonjo.
Will you be adding to the transmitter page to include the southern ones?
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: dudbaker on June 01, 2009, 10:03:04 AM

Hi

These are mainly Mil for Daventry Chedburgh Grantham Greenford Swingfield Warlingham Ventnor Clee Hill Sneafell Winstone Davidstow Moor.  Rothwell are trimingham are very similar.



125.275   Anglia Radar   Anglia Radar   Trimingham   1
125.95   Manchester    N Upper    Pres Kel   1
127.45   London Mil        Clee Hill   1
127.45   Manchester   Centre   Pres Kel   1
128.05   Manchester    Centre West    Pres Kel   1
128.25   London Mil      Greenford Clee Hill   1
128.7   London Mil           Chedburgh Clee Hill   1
131.125   Manchester    Centre   Preston   1
131.225   London Mil      Trimingham   1
133.05   Manchester    Centre   Preston   1
133.3   London Mil      Dav   1
133.325   London Mil      Chedburgh   1
133.4   Manchester    Centre Trent    Pres Kel   1
133.9   London Mil      Clee hill   1
134.425   Manchester    Centre   Preston   1
134.475   Scottish      Preston   1
135.075   London Mil      Trimingham   1
135.15   London Mil      Clee Hill   DSM   1
135.275   London Mil      Trimingham   1
135.575   London      Preston   1
135.575   London l            Wirral Sector   Preston Kel   1
135.625   London Mil      Trimingham   1
135.925   London Mil          Trimingham   1
231.825   London Mil    London Mil    Green Vent DSM Win   1
232.875   London Mil    ICF W (S)   Clee Hill DSM 3340 Dk 34       1
233.225     London Mil    East   Trim    1
233.725   London Mil    East   Trim Roth Wash.  Navpi   1
251.425     London Mil    East   Trim    1
251.475   Scottish Mil   Scottish Mil      1
252.875   London Mil    Central   Clee Hill Greenford  AARA 6.     1
252.975   London Mil      Chedburgh   1
256.575   London Mil      Clee Hill Litchfield  133.90   1
259.6   London Mil    East   Trim   6130 Desk 13       1
261.35   London Mil    East   Trimingham ARA8   1
269.475   London Mil    East   Trimingham 6120 Desk 12   1
270.05   London Mil    East   Trimingham 6110 Desk 11       1
275.5    London Mil    East   Grantham   1
275.625   London Mil    Southeast   Ched Warl Ven.  CC 371.55   1
275.65   London Mil    East   Trimingham   1
277.625   Lon Mil      Preston   1
277.775   London Mil   ICF    Trimingham     1
278.6   London Mil    ICF SW   Warl Clee Hill DSM   1
280.825   Lon Mil      Preston   1
282.125   London Mil      Snaefell GDF Grantham   1
282.5   London Mil      Clee Hill   1
283.475   Anglia Rader   Anglia Rader   Trimingham   1
284.675   London Mil    East   Trimingham 6140 Desk 14       1
284.7   London Mil   S   Warl Swing   1
292.525   London Mil    Central   Clee Hill   1
293.475   London Mil    South   Greenford DSM Win   1
341.675   London Mil    ICF Cen (Sec)   Greenford Daventry Win   1
342.075   London mil           Rothwell Only   1
370.625     London Mil    East Wash   Rothwell Only   1
371.55   London Mil    ICF Sec   Ched Warl  275.625   1
371.8    London Mil    East   Trimingham   1
372.675   London Mil    West   Clee Hill  DSM   1
397.175     London Mil    East   Rothwell Only   1
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: jonjorobb on June 01, 2009, 11:58:26 AM
Be aware, some of these Freq's are no Longer in use, and also some of the Sectors.

@ DCA - When I can, Yes

Jonjo
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: jonjorobb on June 28, 2009, 10:59:52 AM
Does anyone here have any info on UHF freqs used by mil traffic  overflying the SW of England (Cornwall Deven etc)?

Inital Contact Freq is 278.600

This is the map I made http://jonjorobb.netne.net/jonjo/MMARS.png

Thanks,
Jonjo
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: fatkat on June 28, 2009, 11:22:49 AM
wow ...just looked at your website

I doff my cap in your direction  !
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: EMA on June 28, 2009, 04:49:50 PM
it may be worth you checking my website - www.jonjorobb.netne.net/e107/ for information on the Preston transmitter, and which offsets its best heard on. Please note this is a new site, not yet complete.

Thanks,
Jonjo

Hi Jonjo

How long does it take to be approved to login to your site after signing up for an account?
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: jonjorobb on June 28, 2009, 05:10:47 PM
Sorry to hear your having problems.

Ive had a lot of problems with the Member access, so im considering just making it a page open to all and scrapp the Idea of members.

Will be done be tonight, I promise
Jonjo
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: EMA on June 28, 2009, 05:12:27 PM
Sorry to hear your having problems.

Ive had a lot of problems with the Member access, so im considering just making it a page open to all and scrapp the Idea of members.

Will be done be tonight, I promise
Jonjo

Thanks, I have tried a couple of times including today, I get the message confirmation email sent but nothing arrives :-(
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: jonjorobb on June 28, 2009, 05:34:18 PM
Its done now :)
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: EMA on June 28, 2009, 05:38:22 PM
Excellent, thanks for providing such an informative site.
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: jonjorobb on June 28, 2009, 05:50:47 PM
No Problem, I enjoy doing it. :)
Title: Re: Hearing VHF Base Transmissions
Post by: malc41 on June 29, 2009, 11:32:42 AM
Good site Jonjo