AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: tarbat on January 31, 2009, 11:04:07 AM
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Living by the sea as I do, I have a keen interest in Search and Rescue helicopters. These don't have ADS/B equipment, so never plot on the map, but do appear in the list.
A useful tool in being able to track the postion of these helicopters is ShipPlotter (http://www.coaa.co.uk/shipplotter.htm). These helicopters have AIS transmitters fitted, so plot their postions in ShipPlotter - see screenshot.
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Cheers Tarbat I am a keen Air Sea Rescue fan also so this is a very useful tip indeed. Cheers John
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Hello tarbat,
regarding Air-Sea rescue and other Sea-Patrol aircraft and their usual absense of ADS-B sigs
I had a look at your screenshot given.
May I point out that far more details can be achieved by simply flatbed-scanning
a British Admiralty Chart of your area e.g. BA115 scale 1:200 000.
By calibrating just the corner points or better plus some more intermediates you shall get a superb background.
Must not be an exact corner but any point which is easily identified by lat/long to be converted into decimal.
I assume that the Admiralty meanwhhile has switched to multicolour charts not only in a few areas
but also or especially in your home waters.
Another source might be the IMRAY charts for Pleasure Boats, e.g. IC23 scale 1:250 000
Anyway when scanned and saved preferably as .jpg you shall have a good reference
Regards
Klaus
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Unfortunately I don't have any charts. I'm hoping that Shiptrax will have decent marine charts.
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@ Tarbat
oh c'mon you are living at the coast, check with your local chart dealer,
even though paper charts have their price because they normally have to be revised/amended up to selling week,
you might ask for a virginlike unrevised issue for training purpose which usually sell cheaper.
Remember only what's costly is really precious, over here the IMRAY are around € 28 and the BA at €32 each
Klaus
BTW the e-charts come only in complete areas and are much more expensive
with hundreds of @
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Tarbat,
Is it possible to download info from sharers with the trial version of ShipPlotter or does one have to use a VHF radio for input?
Tom
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If I remember correctly, the trial version only allows input from an AIS receiver (not a VHF receiver, it must be an AIS receiver), but access to the shared information requires registration - just like PlanePlotter.
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Tarbat, are they named as SAR Aircraft as on your screen shot? Do you have the mmsi number or callsign for any of the SAR aircraft?
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Yes, the one I saw yesterday was named SAR Aircraft, MMSI was 111232501.
I only use ShipPlotter with shared data (you have to pay for that functionality), as I'm patiently waiting to see what price Shiptrax is when it's finally released.
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Thanks tarbat, I hadn't thought about tracking SAR assets via AIS!
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I live under a regular SAR flightpath and more or less accepted that I was never going to see a plot on AirNav. I also run ShipPlotter 24/7, but have never seen anything but shipping on my screen. I'm trawling through all the menus in case "all types" are not selected! Sunday is quite often a day when they excercise, so will be keeping my eyes and ears open!
cheers
Peter
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All UK SAR aircraft use the callsign Rescue **, with the stars being numbers. An FOI request to the MCA may give you the more detailed breakdown of number allocation or MMSI code.
http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga07-home/aboutus/mcga-aboutus-foi/mcga-foia-publication.htm
It probably won't tie up to registration, but will tie it up to which SAR flight it launched from.
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@ Allocator
The trial version of shipplotter works as well with a VHF-Receiver/Scanner with a baseband output
direct into Line In of yr PC's soundcard. Only disadvantage is one do not fetch the second AIS Channel
but that is not really a problem.
Besides Mapping the logging output is MMSI,Name/Description,ITU-Callsign,TYPE, various DIMS, and IMO
So give it a try
@ Peter
SAR-Helis show at the German Bight Coast and I remember for the Channel not only
seeing Dutch but UK SAR-Aircraft with shipplotter
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Tarbat,
Your MMSI code 111232501 shows up in the search function here:
http://www.aisliverpool.org.uk/search.php
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All UK SAR aircraft use the callsign Rescue **, with the stars being numbers.
As you can guess from my handle, I'm involved with SAR as a voluntary Coastguard (aka dope on a rope!). Most of the helio SAR in sw England is done by RN Sea Kings from 771 Squadron (grey a/c with red nose and tail with Ace of Clubs insignia). These use the callsign Navy 193/194 etc. when on routine duties, but as soon as they've been tasked by RAF Kinloss to SAR duties, the callsign changes to Rescue 193/4 etc.. If they're tasked to a job, more than 150 miles offshore, 2 helios are always used, usually with a Nimrod providing extra cover and overseeing the op.. RAF Sea Kings out of St Mawgan (I assume they will no longer be flying out of St Mawgan now the RAF have pulled out) and Chivenor use 169 (and 170?) callsign. The RAF SKs are fitted with FLIR equipment, but the Navy's aren't, just the No. 1 eyeball. The Devon & Cornwall helio calls Oscar 99, and I know some other Police units also use 99 calls.
When an emergency situation arises, Falmouth/Brixham MRCC (Maritime Rescue Co-ordination Centres) have to contact Kinloss and request Navy/RAF assistance. Officially, they cannot task Navy/RAF units directly, but a phone call is made to the bases to give them the heads up, which saves 10 minutes getting kitted up and the aircraft wound up. The Navy and RAF usually get alerted before our pagers are pinged! and more often than not, they can get to the scene before we can (especially in the summer, with tourist drivers who are driving down the middle of the road at 20mph, rubber-necking the scenery, paying no attention - they're on holiday and leave their brains at home - rant over!). We also work with the RNLI sea-going and inshore lifeboats, Police, Air and land Ambiulances/Paramedics etc..
Also at RNAS Culdrose (HMS Sea Hawk) there are Sea Kings used for submarine detection, Merlins, Jetstreams and around 10 Hawks, flown by ex-RAF personnel to simulate enemy aircaft and missile attacks on Navy vessels during exercises. Very rarely is the Hawk's front seat occupied, so I'm still working on trying to bum a ride!
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All very interesting contributions, many thanks to everyone. We have R125 - 128 based about 10 miles away, 125 is always the duty a/c whatever its actual airframe is, and 126 is the next call if 125 is engaged on a job. I will be watching PP and RD very carefully when I become aware that they are in my area next time!
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Hi Peter, whereabouts in the country are you, and are these RAF or RN units. I believe the coastguard chartered helicopters usually call on the last two characters of their registration (but not 100%). HM Coastguard also have 3 or 4 ocean-going salvage tugs - our local one, usually in Falmouth or Mounts Bay is Anglian Princess - situated near the busiest shipping lanes. From 2012 the SAR operations are going to be "privatised" (not strictly the correct term, but close enough for our purposes!), and the Sea Kings (some airframes are well over 30 yrs old, and they vibrate so much they loosen your fillings) are to be withdrawn a great shame as it is a superb aircraft. SKs have 2 engines, and whether or not the Merlins (3 engines, much bigger, heavier and more computer controlled) will take over RAF/RN SAR duties so successfully, remains to be seen. The Merlins are a good aircraft, but there have been a couple of crashes, including one at Culdrose as it was hovering low just after take off, within the airfield perimeter, bits of rotor debris flew all over, some landing 1/4 a mile away, fortunately no-one killed, but some very serious injuries were sustained.
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I am in Ipswich around 10 miles SE from Wattisham which is an Army Base. However the RAF run 4 Seakings from a hanger isolated away from the rest of the base. I've seen 3 helicopters in the hanger on a visit, the fourth one is usually having a major. I think that our guide said usually two airframes were ready to fly on call and a further one subject to around 3 hours notice. The callsigns are R125 up to 128 in order of readiness to fly.
There has been a major incident here, the air ambulance appeared 10 minutes ago and I presume 125 has RTB. No sign of any of theses on RB or PP plotted or on the lists.
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Here's an idea for Airnav to develop. Have a lookup table in Radarbox/Shiptrax that ties the ModeS hex code of a helicopter to the MMSI code of that same helicopter. Then combine the data from both sources to plot the helicopter on the Radarbox map.
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Are they supposed to be broadcasting on AIS? Is this a trial or just a local idea?
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All I can say is that the Helicopter R125 was out and about this morning passing right over my house a couple of times, and did not appear anywhere at all on the lists. I concluded that only the newer units were fitted with AIS. Obviously Tarbat's sightings at the start of this thread were fitted, plus the new helicopters in Portland, but no sign yet around here. In fact I spotted the Solent units on ShipPlotter share, RB was not booted up at the time!
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They're on the increase. I regularly see a SAR helicopter on ShipPlotter over the western isles, Orkney, Shetland, and Highlands.
ITU Recommendation M583 defines construction of MMSI numbers. A recent change introduced a new format of MMSI for SAR aircraft. SAR aircraft fitted with DSC will use MMSI's with the block 111 as the leading three characters, followed by the country MID and then three numerals to indicate the individual aircraft.
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There's been some progress over on a ShipPlotter forum to tie-up MMSI numbers to SAR registrations:
111232502 G-CGOC
111232503 - G-SARC
111232504 - G-CGIJ
111232505 - G-SARD
111232506 - G-CGWB
Evidently not all AIS receivers can receive the "mode B" transmissions - it needs the KATAS chip. So, wrong forum, but Airnav you should test that the ShipTrax receiver can receive these transmissions okay. I'll test if you want ;)
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A very good point Tarbat! AirNav please take note, we await the new gear with interest.
Sadly have confirmed that the older RAF SeaKings around here are not fitted with AIS.
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Okay, just got a definitive tie-up between:
MMSI Registration
111232501 = G-SARB
On ShipPlotter at the same time as G-SARB was on my Radarbox at 5000ft, squawking 0023 (SAR Operations).