AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: abrad41 on January 01, 2009, 04:19:42 PM
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Hi
Question - In Mylog when you use populate, does it get its information from Navdata.db3 first or the AirNav online database.
Cheers
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I'm not entirely sure about this. I did think that it only got data from NavData.db3, but you do get the photo download message at the bottom right of the screen, so it's probably a combination of both. As to whether NavData.db3 or the service that is searched first, I don't know.
Anybody else any ideas?
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Thanks
Be good to hear from AirNav Support on this.
I have just spent the last month sorting out my Navdata.db3 to how I want it to be. Today I have started a new Mylog file and want to fill in the missing bits, and don't want it being populated by the online database, I want to get the information from Navdata.db3 file.
If that make sence.
Cheers
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It will go through the Navdata first and anything it does not find there it goes via the online database.
Well it should do :) Backup your database incase.
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Thank for the quick response AirNav Support.
Yes I have made a back up already of both files, I will try it and see what happens.
Will report back for others, if they want to try the same thing.
Andy
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Right I have tried somethings and the results are -
1st - Done a populate with everything as normal - This took a long time, about 10 mins or so, thought the information must be coming from AirNav database.
Before I done the populate, I made a note 5 aircraft details (ModeS & Reg) - out of the 5 only one was populated correctly from the Navdata.db3 file - the other 4 were still showing the wrong details. So from this I asume that Mylog did not populate correctly from the AirNav database or from the Navdata file.
2nd - This time I turned my internet connection off, so if it was going to populate, it had to do it from the Navdata.db3 file. At the start when it populated, it stated I think about 251 records to be populated. I thought this had worked well because it was all over so quick and as I had no internet connection, it must have got the information from the Navdata file. But when I checked the Mylog file there were still some records which were not reading right. From this I can only asume that this way was far better, but not 100%
3rd - Again without my internet connected - I made a note of 3 United States Air Force Aircraft, 1 Iberworld, 1 Abelag and 1 Air Service Liege (Reg's) All were showing correct in the Navdata file.
I tried the populate again and afterwards checked these 6 aircraft again in Mylog file, nothing had changed, so I can only asume that this was not working how it should have done.
A big part of my hobbie is keeping correct records of what aircaft I have picked up through my antenna, so over the last month or so I have been sorting out my Navdata.db3 file. This I completely emptied and started again, everything I picked up through my antenna I could correct in Navdata file and it would not be changed and from the 1st Jan 2009 with a empty Mylog file, everything in Mylog file would be able to populate from the Navdata file and show correctly in Mylog file.
I was wrong, Airnav could we log a issue with this please.
I do believe in another thread someone was having problems with the --- not being overwritten by the populate system, could this be the same, bacause in the Mylog file there is a entry, it will not overight whats already there.
Andy
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Just throwing this to the top again.
Could we have a response from Support or Development please.
When I get home from work today I will be trying a couple of tests to see if we can get to the bottom of this. Can I just say if Mylog file is not populating from the Navdata.db3 file, What is the point of having the Navdata file in the first place.
Cheers
Andy
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But I make changes to NavData.db3, then do a Populate from MyLog and I see the details filled in, so it is populating from NavData.db3.
Maybe it is only populating when the record in MyLog is completely blank - other than Mode S?
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Allocator
I think this may be the problem - Last night I Choose about 3 records and deleted everything in the records apart from ModeS and Reg, I then tried the populate (with no internet connection) and it populated the records in full.
This was a very quick test last night, so will try it more when I get home today.
But when RB is running Mylog is having some details entered, which then is not allowing it to be fully populated from the Navdata file, well this is my theory.
If when running Rb the Mylog was only filled with ModeS and Reg details, I think this would then work.
Cheers
Andy
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OK, just proved this again:
Mode S code 40589B showing in MyLog with no other details. This is because there in nor record in the GAS database as this is actually an incorrect code being sent by an aircraft (see airframes.org for details)
Populate from MyLog has no effect as it's not in the GAS/AirNav Server database.
A search using Database Explorer show than no record exists for 40589B
Details obtained manually from airframes.org
New record created using Database Explorer
Populate run from MyLog, and aircraft details are now populated.
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Just disproved my own theory a bit :-)
Went back into Database Explorer and added data to the Airline field of my "new" record as airframes.org didn't have details.
Ran Populate from MyLog and the record was updated correctly to show the Airline.
So, Populate seems to be working as it should from my point of view.
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Great I think this is how it will work.
Try it with a record in Mylog, which say has ModeS - Reg - Airline -(No AT or AN)
and see if it populates then. I will give you a example - In Mylog you will get Thomson(Britanina Airways) - In my Navdata File I have it as Thomson and doing the populate will not change that.
Andy
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Right, so maybe it won't overwrite data in a field if there is any data in the field? If the field is blank, it writes from NavData/Server?
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Allocator
I think what we can take from this is, prehaps the database and populate is not working how maybe it should.
Andy
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If when the information is picked up from the aircraft, prehaps we only need the ModeS & Reg information entered in Mylog - then it would populate with the right details you want from your Navdata file.
Cheers
Andy
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AirNav Support Or Development.
Is there any way we could choose what we want entered in our Mylog file - as I have said above ModeS & Reg would be good for me, Then I could get all the details from my Navdata file.
Thank you for your help
Andy
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Right, so maybe it won't overwrite data in a field if there is any data in the field? If the field is blank, it writes from NavData/Server?
I agree. This even relates to the ... aircraft type field. I regularly change these to the correct aircraft type in Navdata, but when I populate MyLog with the aim of getting those changed aircraft types onto that database nothing happens to those records and MyLog still shows as ...
However as soon as you delete the ... in Mylog to leave the type field blank, and then populate, it picks up the change from Navdata. This is incredibly time consuming if you pick up lots of new aircraft on a day.
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Any comments from Airnav.
Is there anyway round this problem, What is the point of having a master database ie Navdata.db.3, when it is doing no good in the respect of populating the Mylog.db3.
Please AirNav look at this and check it out.
Andy
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The databases are both SQL databases and can therefore be easily manipulated using any 3rd party SQL editor - this was why AirNav changed form their original "AirNav" database format, because users wanted to be able got get into the guts of the databases.
I use SQL Maestro, which is very powerful and I've only just scratched the surface with what it can do. Working on copies of the databases, I have managed to destroy them completely - so top tip is to always keep a backup of your databases and only work on the copies.
I'm sure that it would be easy to delete all the "..." fields in MyLog.db3, as it would to make any other batch changes required. I know that tarbat has done a fair bit of work with the raw SQL databases, so he might be able to advise. Do a Furoum search for SQL Maestro to read the posts.
That warning again - it's easy to corrupt the databases if you don't know what you are doing!
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abrad41,
We do read the posts, there is no need indivudally call us in each post and move the post up just to get our attention :)
Hold on while we find the exact rules to population. It is populating the empty entries though will find out what it does when entries are already there.
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AirNav
I do apologize, but as you can appreciate some of us do get a little involved with what we are trying to sort out and in the long run we are only trying to help you sort the problems out too, and make a better product for everyone. As I said I apologize and I will try to be more patent in the future.
Allocator
I do use SQL Maestro too, but like you I have only scratched the surface with it.
I would just like to say if I have offended either of you sorry.
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On a similar tack has anybody who uses the ADU database for logging tried to integrate their database and populate using that data. I use it for my logging and have found several aircraft, inputting the mode S code,as it seems to be more up to date.
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Andy,
You'll have to go a long way to offend me :-)
The database is very important to some people and having used some fairly awful systems in the past, I know how irritating it can be when they don't provide us with just what we think we need.
AirNav were very receptive to changing the whole way the database worked - a major program re-write - so I'm sure that they will keep working on this. I don't think they initially realised what the more serious enthusiast wanted. I'd like to see all the data being recorded somewhere, even if it's in a raw format and isn't immediately available for viewing. At least then we could extract what we felt we needed. As I mentioned in the past, I'm not sure that there are 2 people out there who want exactly the same thing.
I'd like to see some bright spark out there who is able to write us a standalone SQL database viewer/editor for the MyLog and NavData databases - SQL Maestro is very good, but it's just to dangerous for a user like me :-0
If there was a standalone editor, the use would be at our own risk of course as AirNav wouldn't want to start help people who had trashed their databases!
I've just got back from Staples, having bought myself a 22 inch widescreen LCD running at 1680 x 1050 as a primary monitor. The 180 x 1024 monitor now becomes the secondary monitor. Trouble is, it's like sitting too close to the cinema screen - I don't know where to look! RadarBox looks fantastic though :-)
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Allocator
After reading the post again from Airnav I now feel a little offended - for the first time since being on this forum, I felt like I was on the sbs-1 forum and you now whats that like. I was only trying to help myself and other people, ok I got a little involved, but there is no need to speak to peole like that. If they wanted to say something, they could have pm me. And if I may say so, I do now my way round a computer and have worked with them, as long as they have been about.
And I am sorry to say you and AirNav made me feel small and stupid.
Anyway onto more pressing things -
I checked 15 aircraft in Mylog file which had not been populated by the Navdata file. I made a note of everything to do with the records, disabled my internet connection and tried a poulate - went back to Mylog and nothing had changed.
So for the 15 aircraft (within the records) I deleted Airline Name - AircraftTypelong - AircraftTypesmall and then tried to populate again, this time everything worked fine and the 15 aircraft were all populated with the records from the Navdata file.
This proves as we were thinking, It will only populate when the cells are empty.
Or and I do now what you mean about the monitor - I have 2 x 22" Samsung monitors, side by side - both running at 1680 x 1050
Andy
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There was a reason why there is smiley face in our post. It wasn't meant to be a post to offend or make you feel small just stating we do read all the posts so no need to directly call us and especially bump the post.
Please don't take it too seriously.
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And I am sorry to say you and AirNav made me feel small and stupid.
I'm really sorry about that Andy, that is the last think that I would ever want to do and I offer you an unreserved apology.
The forum should be a fun place to be and it's not nice if you think that you are being "leaned" on - I know all about that from the SBS-1 forum.
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I accept the apology Allocator and AirNav.
Its all forgottin.
Andy
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With looking through Mylog - I have just noticed, there is a lot of records which hav'nt even reach the Navdata database - so these would not get populated from the Navdata file anyway.
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Andy,
AFAIK, if the registration of an aircraft isn't known (on the Airnav server), then an aircraft record isn't added in the Navdata database. So, did these aircraft have a known registration?
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Yes you are right mate, the ones with a reg are in the Navdata and the ones without a reg are missing.
You have read the thread mate, any sugestions about populate etc etc
Andy
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I think populate works as follows:
First principle. MyLog records the details of an aircraft as they were when the aircraft was first logged. So, if AT was "..." when the aircraft was first received, it will stay as "..." for ever. Populate will NOT overwrite data.
The exception is blank fields. So, if AT was blank when the aircraft was first received, it will be recorded as blank. If, at a later date, you update Navdata with a corrected AT (eg. "A388"), then populate will fill in the blanks.
For aircraft where the registration is unknown, nothing is recorded in Navdata. Everytime you then receive that aircraft, or run populate, RB will attempt to get details from the Airnav server, and put the details in Navdata. When you next run populate, these details will update the aircraft in Mylog.
IMO, there are two "issues" with this approach.
1. Aircraft in RB are "keyed" on the ModeS code. So, if an aircraft changes registration but keeps the same ModeS code, the database can't really handle this situation. So, RB keeps the old registration details. Ideally, you would want a new MyLog entry created for the new registration, but keep the old one as well.
2. Airnav (or their data provider) need to stop putting "..." in the AT field when the aircraft type is unknown. If it was left blank instead, populate would be able to update it.
HOWEVER, I'm not a great user of the MyLog function, so I'm not a great expert on the way it works.
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Thank you mate for your views
Would it be better at the start to leave everything blank - so Mylog could do the updates form the Navdata file.
As you now I cleared out my Navdata file and started a fresh one about a month ago, This went well and I had manually sorted about 4,200 records.
I was hoping on the 1st Jan 2009 to start a new Mylog, but it just did not work the way, I expected and I was very disapointed with the way populate and the databases work, and I think its very confussing for people and not very good if people want to keep accurate records.
Andy
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No, I don't think it would be better to leave everything blank in MyLog. Two reasons:
1. Significant processing overheads having to link the MyLog database to the NavData database whenever viewing MyLog. This was the main reason I originally recommended to Airnav, during beta testing, that they combine everything into one database containing Navdata and MyLog. The current database design is a compromise that restricts what can be done to link MyLog tables to Navdata tables.
2. When aircraft details change, MyLog correctly shows details of the aircraft as they were when the aircraft was logged. If it always got details from Navdata, then the MyLog data would change (incorrectly) to the new details. Ideally, when aircraft details change (eg change of owner, change of registration), a new MyLog entry should be created. With the current database design, that's not possible, as ModeS code is the primary key.
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I have also found when you use Populate in Mylog - It is changing some details in the Navdata db3 file - I grant you not many, but there is some.
Andy