AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: Theo on December 31, 2008, 04:27:25 PM
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Hi all
My name is theo, living in the netherlands.
reading sometime now on both forums (airnav/SBS1) to compare the 2 boxes.
I'm consider to by one of the 2 radarboxes that been availible at this moment
I don't know wich it gonna bee at the moment but my trust in the sbs1 decrease's every day
Why?.....
Wel let me tel you.
Sinds a couple of days i'm a goldmember of the dutch site called ATCBox.
maybe some of you know this site, anyway its possible for goldmembers to watch live
footage of the sbs1 radarbox and the airnav radarbox.
Now its hard to compare the 2 boxes because the airnav has a limit of 5 min.
and the one that stream it dissabled/enabled the stream to his needs, so you cannot compare
the 2 for real
so i focust on the sbs1 this week, and i noticed some strange things .
1. when i look outside and spot a plaine (sometimes 3 at he same moment),
and i look to the ATC radarbox, (streaming the sbs1)most of the time it show's no picture's of plaines nearby,
and if it does show a plain in the area on the stream and i go look outside i see nothing.
this gives me the feeling of none live (realtime) footage
sometimes it is showing the right data, but this is a 2 out of 10 hit.
Must say that the stream of helmond is more acurate for possitioning the planes then the variable stream
question.. is the sbs1 not acurate?, and therefore not real live (i must figure this out), or is
it software (firmware)related.
2. sometimes it shows a plaine on the radar and i see actualy 1 outside, butt
on the radarscreen it shows to far to the west of me, this give me the feeling
that the layout isn't correct, but when i look to eham the layout is correct even with a overlay of a google map.
3. Another strange thing, i spotted 2 plaines pasing eachother, on the leftside,on the radar it
showing they where passing on the rightside, why show's it wrong??
anyway for the airnav i have no remarks because i don't have seen this in realtime, but
if this box does the same as the sbs1, it gonna be non of these boxes
hope the airnav is more acurate then his competition....
Ps it is not my intention to pull down the sbs box, i'm only telling what is see and
what i think for so far
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We won't answer the questions directly as we are not a SBS support forum, you need to ask them that. If you want us to answer questions then ask them about RadarBox :)
But we will say, is that we have a comparison of RadarBox and SBS at
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=606.0
We have had many customers move over from SBS to RadarBox, if you search the forum you can find there posts.
Also regarding question 1, remember both devices track (display on the map) ADS-B transponder aircraft only. The ADS-B transponder uses either GPS or the aircrafts internal navigation. The latter can sometimes become out of sync which may show aircraft a mile or so out (though this is not common 5% or less)
I hope that helps.
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Hi Theo and all, I got to open my RB on 25/12, and tried to have a play - my wife's lap-top is Acer Gemstone 5920 with Intel dual core cpu running Vista.
We were staying with mother-in-law (she's one of the few real good ones!) who only has dial up, on the Wilts/Somerset border near Warminster.
Loaded the CD software all OK. Plugged in the RB to USB socket - absolutely SFA, no green power light - nothing. Pinched m-i-l's camera dock to PC lead, and plugged - green light and a couple of flashes from the blue LED. Re-started pc and started RB program, typed in User name and Password - need to be correct case, and started getting lots of flashes from blue LED and the white (?) one, picking up a max. of 9 a/c from a really crap location - fantastic - took it up to the top of the hill at Westbury White Horse - WOW!!! - couldn't count the number of a/c, (including arrivals and departures from LHR and LGW) just too many of them, no overlapping of captions - worst problems were trying to decide which a/c to follow and having to hide under a fleece to see the screen.
Many thanks (esp. Allocator and Tarbat) to all in this Forum for the advice to go this route rather than the SBS - it all started up so easily, apart from duff USB lead - AirNav, I think you have a problem with the USB leads you are sourcing - this one is not the first, straight out of the box.
I'll post how I get on with Maplins customer service and replacement of the u/s lead. Once I've got some external antennas erected, I'll start the network system (our walls are 3' thick stone, so don't let many RF signals through.
My advice to anyone looking at getting a virtual radar box (I've looked at live-time displays on the SBS-1) is to go for the ArBie, second to none!
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The phenomena you describe (aircraft transmitting incorrect position data, or no position data at all) are both very common, and there is nothing that either SBS or RadarBox can do about it. Both boxes will display aircraft where they are, in real-time, if the aircraft is transmitting accurate data.
If aircraft are showing as incorrectly positioned relative to your location, it's also possible of course that they are in the right place and you have entered your location wrongly.
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Theo,
Welcome to the forum!
I'm not quite sure where about you are in the Netherlands, but I've recentred my RadarBox FTP feed to cover the whole country. You can see it here - give it 5 minues from the time of this post to update.
http://www.ruyton.demon.co.uk/html/airnav_radarbox.html
I've used an SBS-1 and now use RadarBox and both boxes provide real-time live data. Of course, you won't see all aircraft on the map because not all aircraft transmit position information. The big advantage of the RadarBox is the Network data, although that as you know is delayed by 5 minutes for security reasons. In my FTP feed - which is also delayed 5 minutes - the Network traffic (marked with "*" after the callsign) will be 10 minutes delayed. However, it will give you a good idea of what you can see using the RadarBox Network alone - I'm based in the UK, so you are too far away for me to be getting live traffic over the Netherlands.
There is an AirNav YouTube Channel dedicated to the AirNav RadarBox that you might find interesting.
http://uk.youtube.com/user/AirNavTeam
If you want accurate traffic information, then maybe you need an AirNav RadarBox of your own :-)
All the best
Allocator
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Hi Theo and all, I got to open my RB on 25/12, and tried to have a play - my wife's lap-top is Acer Gemstone 5920 with Intel dual core cpu running Vista.
Jon, I'm glad that Santa brought you what you wanted :-)
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Already had a PM from AN Support - my reply
"Yes, it has 2009 sticker on wrapper, unit serial no. ANRB10142.
Thanks for the very quick and prompt response - FirstClass."
Would I have had this level of service from the Dark Side - I don't think so. AN Support must be keeping an extremely close eye on this Forum to have picked up so quickly on this.
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Theo,
I see that you're not on-line at the moment, so I'll switch off my FTP feed of the Netherlands. Just let me know when you're here again and I'll switch it on for you.
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CoastGuardJon,
We always keep an eye on the forum posts or at least we try do but sometimes there is just soo many when the forum gets busy :)
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@airnav support
Sorry if you missunderstand me, i dont want you to answer any question, i should have wright "i asked myself" and yes i know that they can only receive ADS-B transponder aircraft only, but i see lot of planes pasing over my home town butt see almost never one appear on the sbs stream (ore to late).
Look it doesn't have to be exact on a mm, but when it shows a plain it must not be showing a plain flying over a town some 30/35 km away that is what i mean with not acurate
@allocator.
THX for the offer, and yes i will buy a box the only question is wich one;-)
for the remark of entering the wrong coordinates, its a live stream from someone else his box so i can not entering anything.
anyway now the newyear has started i wil see if i can find a store in my area who's selling the airnav box and is willing to demostrate it for me, hope the airnav does a better job, we will see......
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Theo,
I've missed you again :-)
My FTP feed is covering the Netherlands again for your info:
http://www.ruyton.demon.co.uk/html/airnav_radarbox.html
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lol.. I'm now online will check out if you streaming Or you can contact me on msm for setting a time youre stream is availible......
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Theo,
I've just moved the map back to the Netherlands from the UK - give it 5 minutes to catch up :-)
Just let me know if you want me to zoom in/out etc
http://www.ruyton.demon.co.uk/html/airnav_radarbox.html
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ok watching now a question is it possible for the airnav to show the same info as the sbs, i mean it shows the fleat (ex. klm, easyjet etc.etc)
and where the plain is comming from and destination ex. ams-mrs.
i know this info can be displayed on the leftside screen but can it be shown on the radarscreen also.
ps you don't have to demostrate it just a question.
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Not at the moment Theo. The SBS-1 is very flexible when it comes to what you can show on the map label, but at present you need to use the aircraft list and/or the thumbnail photo area below the list that shows the fleet etc.
The route is shown on the screen if it is avaialble. RB autopopulates the route if it doesn't appear in its database, but there are always problems with odd flight id's not matching to routes - extra letters etc.
As a controller, I like to keep the labels to the minimum anyway in order to avoid screen clutter. You'll notice that the labels don't overlap in RadarBox like they do in Basestation. If there isn't enough room for the label, then it won't be displayed until there is room.
I'll zoom out a bit so you can see more of Europe.
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I've set the map to automatically track UAE2 A380 A6-EDB - lets see how far we can follow it :-)
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(http://www.oeteldonker.nl/image/airnavdemo2.jpg)
Ok look at the KLM888*
there you can see where its comming from and where its going to, that what i mean.
is there any reason that this is not showing on the other plaine in the screenshot KLM862*).
BTW the company isn't that importend the way the airnav shows this on the other panel is much better to oversee
PS. do you know the dutch side geluidshinder.nl http://www.vlieghinder.nl/reacties.php?id=3446_0_1_0_ (http://www.vlieghinder.nl/reacties.php?id=3446_0_1_0_)
they show somthing simmilar but then on the google earth
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KLM862 isn't in the database, so no route shown. You can add it manually if you know what the route is, or it should autpopulate after a while. The route autopopulate was only introduced with the last version of RB, so it's not 100% - but then it's almost impossible to get a 100% route decode anyway!
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Thx for letting take me a peek @ youre airbox.
Here's something, wouldn't it be nice if this is possible
http://www.oeteldonker.nl/Thats_Airnav/Thats_Airnav.html (http://www.oeteldonker.nl/Thats_Airnav/Thats_Airnav.html)
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RadarBox already allows you download satellite images into RadarBox 2009 so you basically see the same.
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Ok after playing for some hours with the other box i've disided to go for the box
from airnav, for a moment i had doubts because the other box can contacted over a network wich is a nice option....(maybe in the future youre box will be to have this option)
the only thing is, there are no store's nearby who's selling any radarbox, the only store i could find is a 3 hour drive... you should promote youre stuff in the netherlands so there will be more store's who's selling youre stuff.
Not many people (who are not involved with aviation) know there is such a device for spotting plane's on a pc for sale.. and that is a shame because when telling about it people wanna know more about it...and as you know every reader is a possible customer.
Ps. are there to youre knowledge more store's besides earotrading in the netherlands?
maybe i spend a site on this in dutch and promote it...;-)
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Ps. are there to youre knowledge more store's besides earotrading in the netherlands?
maybe i spend a site on this in dutch and promote it...;-)
There is a list of dealers on the AirNav site
http://www.airnavsystems.com/RadarBox/dealers.html (http://www.airnavsystems.com/RadarBox/dealers.html)
but that does only show one in Netherlands.
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yep i know and that's the one that's teake a 3 hour drive lol..
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Theo,
We don't have anybody else selling it in Holland. Though you can purchase from us or the dealers direct and get it sent to you.
We are trying to promote to the whole world but its a big world :) Worth of mouth counts though so you can help us out and therefore get better coverage on the network.
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It's not just the Netherlands with this problem. Even with 20 dealers in the UK, my nearest one was 5 hours drive away!!! You can buy directly from Airnav, from their order page at http://www.airnavsystems.com/RadarBox/order.html That's what I did - excellent service.
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yes but Tarbats an anomaly living in training bombing zone :)
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But they still deliver!
"Clear in Hot"
"2 o'clock 200 meters"
"Delta Hotel"
:-)
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But they still deliver!
"Clear in Hot"
"2 o'clock 200 meters"
"Delta Hotel"
:-)
Repairing the house after the, er, "delivery" is a rather protracted business though, even if they use something a bit smaller than a 1000lb bomb case as the packing material! :)
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Tomorrow i'm going to pick up the box (if its not snowing again)
After a close compare and testing the software, i desided eventuly to go for the competition, reason is that altough the airnav has more option allready installed i have seen to many drawbacks that's make me come to this conclusion.
But the main reason is because the network has a delay of some min.
After all we buy the device for the simple reason to watch realtime, for watching with a delay, there are a lot of free options on the internet.
On ATCBox (for who knows the site), the stream's of the airnav box stay's almost empty all the time because of this delay.
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But the main reason is because the network has a delay of some min.
After all we buy the device for the simple reason to watch realtime, for watching with a delay, there are a lot of free options on the internet.
On ATCBox (for who knows the site), the stream's of the airnav box stay's almost empty all the time because of this delay.
Hmm, I think it's going to be interesting to see the responses from other people here Theo, I actually am in your camp and would love to see real time networked data but every thread which mentions it makes it clear that it isn't going to happen any time soon due to government interference based on their security concerns.
How long has ATCBox been going? I wonder if they've been noticed by officialdom?
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Theo, if you want a real-time network, then Planeplotter is close, with it's updates every 60 seconds, and with most Planeplotter sharers providing real-time data from their SBS-1 (with hacked software). And Planeplotter works with Radarbox.
One of the main reasons I sold my SBS-1 was the lack of a network (MapModeS). I can't see how selecting the SBS-1 gives you a better real-time network.
With a Radarbox, I have the benefits of the great Airnav software, real-time local aircraft, but can still make use of all those SBS-1 users sharing their real-time data on the Planeplotter network.
Although I find the 5-minute delay on the Radarbox network is acceptable for most long-distance tracking.
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I can't see how selecting the SBS-1 gives you a better real-time network.
There's also the matter of development too, it seems that SBS-1 is moribund software-wise and despite the SBS-1e it doesn't look like hardware development has moved very far in the 3.5 years since SBS-1 appeared. I don't want to knock the competition in that way, but you need to consider what your options for improving the experience will be.
Since the actual cost of the hardware is a lot less than the price you pay for the product, consider that the extra money pays for the excellent software you want together with future development of the same software. In the RB case, Airnav have provided that and are expected to continue to do so. MapModeS has not appeared, and is unlikely to do so.
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Personal opinion only, what difference does a 5 min. delay make when the a/c is outside of very local airspace, unless you've not no direct signal reception, and you're looking to see what's coming! You pays your money, you takes your choice................
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Personal opinion only, what difference does a 5 min. delay make when the a/c is outside of very local airspace, unless you've not no direct signal reception, and you're looking to see what's coming! You pays your money, you takes your choice................
If i look at the discription of youre hardware (nrd 545/icom etc.) i asume you have this devices not for listening to any previous recorderd conversations, you wanna know whats going on at that moment, (you know the reason why amateurs use a repeater?)
with a delay it is if you looking in the past.
See if i kan explain.
I live in the netherlands, if i can track a plane thats leaving schiphol, i would like to know when its flying over my town, if the data is 5 min. to late i'll never see the a.c because in 5 min it is already past my home town (for holland isn't that big).
its very simple i wanna know what is going on at this moment, not what was going on 5 min. ago.
Iff only airnav had the option of realtime networking then we have not hat this discussion ;-)
@fernis.
For as far as security reasons it don't make any sense to me.
what is the differince between live footage when owning a box, and watching realtime network traffic for reg. users, what makes watching realtime network a higher security risck then when you own such a device?
Its the same as you say 2 guns are more dangerous in the hands of a fool then 1 gun.
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I live in the netherlands, if i can track a plane thats leaving schiphol, i would like to know when its flying over my town, if the data is 5 min. to late i'll never see the a.c because in 5 min it is already past my home town (for holland isn't that big).
But it will be real-time in Radarbox, if you're within range (approx 200nm) of the aircraft. It's only the network that is 5-min delayed, all aircraft received by your Radarbox are live, real-time.
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@fenris.
For as far as security reasons it don't make any sense to me.
what is the differince between live footage when owning a box, and watching realtime network traffic for reg. users, what makes watching realtime network a higher security risck then when you own such a device?
It makes no sense to me either, but when the people that disagree with you have the resources of a major government and can use the law to do whatever they want one must tread carefully. I hope that one day the people who worry about this can be convinced that their concerns are actually baseless and non-delayed network flight tracking can become legal.
I think you need to think carefully about this, maybe the Dutch government is more liberal than in the UK, but if they are asked to do something about this issue, they might do so. I see that LiveATCBox is based in Holland, remember that international law enforcement exists. And we're both in the EU, so there is cooperation between the LEAs.
And in case you're in any doubt, this sort of thing is like an itch I can't scratch to me, I hate the distortion of reality much like you do and I intensely dislike being told I can't do what I like by people who may well not have really analysed the risks and hence insist on unnecessary precautions.
Sadly, wishing does not make it so.
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I can't see the authorities doing anything. Reception of any radio signal by anyone not licensed to receive it is unlawful. That includes airband frequencies and must also include ADS-B, Mode S and other SSR signals. Go to any airshow and you will find hundreds of people using airband scanners. Go to lots of airfields and you will see a fair number of people using SBS and ANRB. The authorities know that it is (a) harmless and (b) impossible to police it, so they turn a blind eye to it. That way they can devote their energies to tracking down the scum that put lives at risk by broadcasting on those frequencies illegally.
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But it will be real-time in Radarbox, if you're within range (approx 200nm) of the aircraft. It's only the network that is 5-min delayed, all aircraft received by your Radarbox are live, real-time.
I know you receive by realtime on youre own box, but if youre receive a limitid signal even with a outside antenna (and i know my receiving conditions because i was listening for a longtime to shortwave/amateurs, scanners etc).
And you want to get the most out of youre box, then its a great help if you can receive more thru a network in realtime.
Again i have no interest in what was going on 5 min ago.
When you depending on a network to practice youre hobby, would you not be glad if its without a delay.
question..Have you seen that beatifull goal....answer..no still waiting for the picture my provider desided to transmit with a delay, but thanks anyway now i know someone has scored a goal 0‘’0
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Theo
You have made a strong point about the five minute network delay of the Arbie.
Please remember that there is NO NETWORK, delayed or not with Sibsie.
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Please remember that there is NO NETWORK, delayed or not with Sibsie.
True, if you don't count PlanePlotter.
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You can use planeplotter from both RB and SBS, but of the boxes the RB is the more user friendly and complete. So if you were wanting to use planeplotter you'd still be better off with the RB.
I've had both units and chose the RB.
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You can use planeplotter from both RB and SBS, but of the boxes the RB is the more user friendly and complete. So if you were wanting to use planeplotter you'd still be better off with the RB.
I've had both units and chose the RB.
I agree, out of the box the RB software looks better (more option's etc.etc.)
But that's not the point, the point is what are the possibility's regarding the funcionatlity on realtime.
Its very simple airnav ruled out the possibility for using the network in realtime while the competition has a option to do that (illigal or not).
But the more i read on this site the more i'm confinced that the argument of security isn't the real reason for the delay.
It is not that hard to figure out what's going to happend when it was possible to get realtime network, one of the things is that people go stream there data on website's and community's.
Airnav know's that there is almost no interest in delayed data (beside's the users that have the boxfor they can wtach realtime also).
So if people want to watch live they must have the box.
That's a good reason to keep it this way.
Personly i think that airnav is affraid when make networking possible realtime people wont buy the box, i think it will increase the sale of it.
When i show friends/family that there is a box for receiving this kind of data and dissplay it on youre monitor, they all say the same thing when telling that the network isn't realtime, they all say What's the use of it then.........
Ask youreself, what if you do not have the radarbox and you only can watch airtraffic on a network with a delay, how long wil you monitoring such a site.
In another topic i was refuring to the site atcbox, there you can see that there is almost no interest for people to watch if it is delayed, on a busy day there are no more then 3 a 4 users that watch the delayed streams as you can see in the screenshot (note that only the streams Europe_east and Europe-West are delayed) all the others are realtime.
(http://www.oeteldonker.nl/image/users.jpg)
But enough said no realtime, no airnav.......
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Theo, I'm still confused. You seem to be saying that the SBS-1 has a real-time network. Can you give some more details about how to access the SBS-1 real-time network - I thought the MapModeS function had been cancelled.
I would agree, that if your main requirement is a real-time network, then Radarbox is not for you. In fact, you probably don't need to buy any hardware, just carry on using atcbox.
EDIT: The Airnav Radarbox network covers the whole world, whereas atcbox only covers a few locations. I'll stick with the Radarbox network for 5-min delayed, global coverage. And Planeplotter for real-time, European coverage.
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Theo,
You should have been around in the early days of the SBS-1 if you think that the whole Network data issue and the 5 minute delay is a new subject. Also, if you think that the 5 minute delay is a clever marketing plan by AirNav to corner the market, then take a look at this thread on the Kinetic forum. Why do you think that Kinetic failed to deliver live MapModeS data - do you think that it was the technical difficulties, or do you think, as stated by the CEO of Kinetic, that they were afraid of being closed down?
A quote from Kinetic:
On a final note, let me warn users of the following. Our security services are enabled to protect us by whatever means suit the risks we are continually exposed to. If SBS-1 users want to test their resolve they will find that access to such services as openatc.com will be logged and prosecution, confiscation and fines MAY result. If we left MapModeS alone then rest assured it was for good reason.
In fact, here's a good thread on the "other" forum - this was following the launch of the OpenATC website!
http://www.kinetic-avionics.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2201&start=0
KineticDavid is the CEO of Kinetic Avionics. Note the date, 30th August 2006 and onwards.
Chaps, this whole live data network issue is old news.
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Theo, at this moment, I have both:
860 aircraft being shared mostly real-time on Planeplotter.
761 aircraft being shared, 5-min delayed, on the Radarbox network.
I use a Radarbox, not an SBS-1, and see all the real-time aircraft I need. Seems a perfect solution to me.
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Theo,
You seem to be pulling things out of thin air. You need to start looking at the facts here about security.
1.) USA - Do they allow Live tracking in the public domain, the answer is no, only the FAA provides the data and the live data given out across the net is heavily protected by security with various audits required. The data in the public domain is all 5 minutes delayed.
2.) UK - Various Live ATC sites which were available to the public domain were closed down by the authorities. In this case the CAA does not even allow access to 5 minute delayed data in the public domain from them.
I have mentioned the UK above as this is where we have the sold the most RBs so far and the USA as thats where our company and servers are based.
We won't go into dealings further but we do have to answer questions from various authorities so Theo you don't have enough knowledge at all to making assumptions. Furthermore as Allocator has mentioned, network security issues were brought up before we released so again you have your information wrong.
Seriously if you want to bring this issue please do so with some correct information otherwise do not make such assumptions about security.
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http://www.geluidsnet.nl/en/geluidsnet/ (http://www.geluidsnet.nl/en/geluidsnet/) they even display it on google earth
ok youre wright i don't know nothing, you should move youre buisiniss overhere.
Or show some evidence where its stated clear thats against the law
Ps: don't know what in youre country the meaning of a publuc domain is but overhere is it Public domain = Accesseble for everyone but youre network isn't accesseble for everyone is it?
What i do know (how many boxes are sold sofar) let's say 5000/6000, lets asume that 3000 make use of the network 3000x60 euro's = 180.000 euro for old data,thats a dam good reason now you gonna make me believe this hasn't nothing to do with marketing.
youre reaction on critic tells allot you waving with rules and laws but don't actualy show enything.
Bye for know over to a old and useless out of date SBS box ;-)
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lets asume that 3000 make use of the network 3000x60 euro's = 180.000 euro for old data
Do you know what bandwidth charges are for a busy server Theo? Rent for a decent facility with protected power supplies and redundant connectivity? It's not cheap...
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Theo,
Firstly we edited the last line of your post as whether or not it was joke it wasn't true.
Seriously Theo the only reason for our reaction is that you have said many things which are totally wrong and have no facts linked to it. You have lost creditability.
If we really wanted to limit the network to being delayed as your theory, couldn't we just have kept it live but not created a port with a data being outputted and not added a screenshot upload (this was added in last version not first anyway) as this would mean nobody else could pass the live data around. This would have been soo much easier for everyone then. Thats that theory out the window.
Regarding laws and sites, there is already well known evidence that sites in the UK have been closed down. This has already been discussed in this thread.
Please also remember the site above and Planeplotter are in territory which can be easily be shutdown if people mention the word terrorism laws and acts. Individuals and small projects sites can take this risk in countries though do you really think a company such as ours wants to take such a massive risk which could result in us loosing licenses with the FAA and maybe even possible banning on the product itself.
Theo you need to step back and look why there isn't European data available for tracking like there has been years in the US. Its not because the systems did not have the capability its because of security.
We have just been conversation this week to a company in a EU who told us straight that they contacted there AirTraffic service for data and told it was not available neither delayed or live to anyone with stringent security and auditing.
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Bye for know over to a old and useless out of date SBS box ;-)
Bye Theo. I guess that you have chosen not to read the Kinetic thread I gave you the link for, as you haven't commented on this at all - choosing to keep a closed mind.
I hope that you have enjoyed your time on this forum and that those of us who have answered your questions to the best of our ability have helped you to understand how RB works. Good luck with your SBS-1. Mine just gathers dust on a shelf under my printer - if I hadn't paid GBP 499 for it two and a half years ago, I don't think that I would have kept it at all :-)
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Presumably someone will be prepared to take it off your hands for a lesser consideration?
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I sold my SBS-1 on eBay for £280 just under a year ago. Probably the going rate is still around that mark.
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I sold my SBS-1 on eBay for £280 just under a year ago. Probably the going rate is still around that mark.
Used SBSs are currently being advertised for £299.99 with a 6-month warranty on the ML&S website, so I suspect that going rate on eBay will drop now.
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I modded mine with the Ethernet mod that was posted on the Kinetic forum by a user who had found how to do it. Kinetic described this mod as "butchery" and were quite rude to those who did it - then about a year later they released their own mod kit - ha!
So, my SBS-1 isn't quite in pristine condition :-)
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Theo,
Firstly we edited the last line of your post as whether or not it was joke it wasn't true.
Seriously Theo the only reason for our reaction is that you have said many things which are totally wrong and have no facts linked to it. You have lost creditability.
If we really wanted to limit the network to being delayed as your theory, couldn't we just have kept it live but not created a port with a data being outputted and not added a screenshot upload (this was added in last version not first anyway) as this would mean nobody else could pass the live data around. This would have been soo much easier for everyone then. Thats that theory out the window.
Regarding laws and sites, there is already well known evidence that sites in the UK have been closed down. This has already been discussed in this thread.
Please also remember the site above and Planeplotter are in territory which can be easily be shutdown if people mention the word terrorism laws and acts. Individuals and small projects sites can take this risk in countries though do you really think a company such as ours wants to take such a massive risk which could result in us loosing licenses with the FAA and maybe even possible banning on the product itself.
Theo you need to step back and look why there isn't European data available for tracking like there has been years in the US. Its not because the systems did not have the capability its because of security.
Ok you keep saying that there are sites closed because of putting live data on the network (internet), i give you a link to a site that's put realtime flight's on the internet (with knowledge of the dutch government, and now you saying qoute: Regarding laws and site's, butt thats the argument that you say before, i show you that's not illigal (maybe in the uk, maybe you must bring out different versions on the markt then) in all the country's in europe this site actualy wright that its not illigal to put live data on there website http://radar.zhaw.ch/ (http://radar.zhaw.ch/)
for so far youre creditability.
For the remark regarding the port for outputting data, could it not be because youre other application software is depending on that data, i remember that i read it on a part of youre website that you actualy use this data (if i not misstaken its for the livetracking).
Now we can go on and on about this but thats not what i'm going to do, i only pointed out to you that its not completly true what you say about the law and security.
and for the other reply's on the topic regarding the way the software is build and the option's.
Now that's true it simply looks better then the competition, but that's not the point its all about the functionality of the device, you can put a lot of option's to the software make it looks as nice as it could be, the main fact is that it can deliver what people want even with help of 3rd party software and thats what's it all about.
@allocator, Yes i read the topic on the other forum, but Its excactly the same as what the say on this website, they also make promises and can't deliver for the same reason, but the fact (again)
it can be done one call it Mode/s and others call it networking but @ the end of it its all about share realtime.
Ps. Making dif. versions wouldn't be that a option for country's that are more flexible, i'm remebering that it was in the mid 70's that the cb Band (22 Mhz and later even 40 channels) was free for use in this country but banned in other country's, this problem was solved to bring out different versions.
Now with this above written its better to stop this topic because we not come to a agreement, you got youre vission and i got mine
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Hi Theo, I was intending to reply to this post of your's on 15/01, but found the thread locked (shades of Kinetic?). Thank you for the link to the zhaw site, which I visited and have to say not very impressed with. I note in the bottom right hand corner it say "Live", but without a RB showing directly received info., you can't tell just how live it actually is, also the info. displayed is hardly earth shatteringly detailed. Why you can't accept that different countries have different rules and regs, I do not know - I just wonder if it's just sour grapes, or a desire on your part to stir things - if AirNav have to incorporate a 5 minute delay to be left alone by the Authorities, then so be it. Once the Authorities realise that we're not a bunch of terrorists, then, who knows, we may be able to have live network access.
In your PS, you ask whether different versions could be made - I don't know the ins and outs of AN as a company, but I'm sure there's a very simple answer - cost. The cost of producing 10 or 20 units of one particular spec. would be prohibitive - Joe Public, like me wouldn't be able to afford it.
You then refer to CB in the mid 70s, this was also referred to as the 11 metre band (26 - 28 MHz) and for long distance use, AM, USB and LSB were used with "burners" (Linear Amps). This caused considerable interference on the old VHF TV and radio channels, and also to some Airband frequencies. When a f riend of mine (about 1 1/2 miles away) started transmitting, he swamped 130 -136 MHz as well! I actually had a Midland AM/Side Band rig confiscated by Post Office Radio Telecomms, when a group of us were trapped on Westbury White Horse hill. If we wanted the rigs back we would have had to contest the confiscation and faced prosecution in the courts - it was far easier and cheaper to lose the rigs and get another one (I still have few rigs, including a Ham International Concorde 3, and the infamous Uniden 2830 covering the 10 metre 28 - 30 Mhz Amateur band, which by bridging a chip became a full 26 - 30 MHz rig). Anyway, back to the point, because the Authorities realised they couldn't win against the illegal breakers in the UK, they decided to introduce the 27/81UK FM only 40 channel rigs, which worked on a totally different and incompatible band to the US and continental rigs, but these were produced and sold in their hundreds of thousands, very often using the same basic chip, thus reducing the cost of production hugely. RB and SBS units will never be produced and sold in such numbers unfortunately.
If you can't get your head around simple commercial facts of life, I can only conclude you live in "Cloud Cuckoo Land", wherever that is!