AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: bernesemad on October 04, 2008, 06:14:00 PM
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Hi, hope someone can help me please, I have recently started to receive less flights in the "my flights" column. I havent done anything different, and I have tried alternative aeriels with the same results.Any idea what is wrong please?
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What do you mean by less flights? Has there been a big difference i.e 50%?
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Yes, my average "my flights" tracking here is usually about 30ish and now Im only picking up about 10-15.
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Could it be a quite day? Did you check it today?
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Yes, its been like this for over a week now.
I have looked at the polar diagram and it is not getting out as far as it used to? Is there a setting for this maybe that I have touched by mistake? I have tried other aeriels with my RB and it is the same?!
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Check your antenna. This happened to me and I found that one of the soldered conections in the base had disconnected itself.
Malc
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Is the antenna indoors or outside? If outdoors, check downlead and connection, moisture is a killer
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Try disconnecting the antenna at the Radar Box side, also the USB cable, then reconnect a few times. Make sure the antenna cable is not putting any strain on the Radar Box SMA connector. If you just physically touch the outside of the antenna jack at the box with your hand, does it make any difference?
I don't know if it's static or a bad connection in the box but my box was been doing this since I got it a few weeks back - I could go over and just barely adjust the antenna connection on the box and suddenly it lights up with 150 messages from only 15 or 0.
It's not my coax or the BNC>SMA adapter - I've changed connectors, etc and everything tests perfectly.
I noticed several times when I touched the connector the box completely stop receiving until I let go.
I was using a pre-amp antenna and though it has ESD built in, the problem was worse then. Since using just the little RB antenna on my roof the problem has not occurred again. Odd.
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Well I have just received my new antenna from Walters & Stanton and grrrrrr its still the same!!! This now tells me that its a problem within the box? But what could it possibly be? Are there any settings that may need changing? Can I reset it to factory default at all?
Thanks for all your help so far, this is giving me a huge headache!
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Can you tell us what kind of coaxial cable you are using? Has it been changed at all?
All I can think of short of sending it in for service is to reinstall the software or try it on a different computer.
I don't know of any settings that would cause your polar plot to be less. Make sure in Interface you have 'show all' flights and are not filtering any.
Another possibility is the airport near you has changed runways for landing and
approach and maybe this is putting some flights out of range, though that's unlikely if you could see them before. I don't know where you are monitoring from.
I think your best option may be to have the box sent back for service.
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We have replied back to you with details on how to RTB.
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my box is on its way back for exactly the same fault along with the pwr on light not being illuminated thought my pre amp had blown on my wimo system but the fault as still there with the supplied aerial as well ground returns at my local airport used to com in no prob with the supplied unit but now cant get a thing and im visual with the threshold 7miles away
cheers paul
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Paul,
I think your issue is different, if the power light is not working looks like the RB has been damaged in some sort of way.
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Making me nervous about connecting the Elad pre-amp. What is causing these boxes to go deaf? Are they overloading the box or is this all ESD? Be nice to know before more have problems if it can be avoided.
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thanks support suspect that as well hadnt noticed the pwr on light missing at first only the lack of flights will find out soon though as box is on its way to waters&stanton first thing tommorrow
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mine too !!!
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Don`t be nervous about using the Elad pre-amp Oceans777,i`m running one with a BS-1100 with the high gain whip,I had problems with the pre-amp to start with as i put it about 18" below the antenna and it started to intermittently tick quite loud and the number of local aircraft dropped off.After talking to a radio ham friend he told me to put the pre amp as it states at the mast head,or as close as possible,for some reason if its too low it cannot deliver enough D.C current.I then put the pre-amp up to the ground planes of the antenna and ding, ding away it went.Ive had no problems YET, but i am in a superb position at this location and my highest number on "My Flights" has been 600+ to date,and my polar diagram is good,my furthest spike reaching 270nm.
Hope this eases your concerns,
Regards Terry.
P.S A good friend of mine,Glyn is about to get the Kuhn pre-amp,He also has a location like mine,so no doubt we will compare pre-amps etc,when he gets his up and running.
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You have no issue to worry if you are using a preamp. As Terry says any ESD won't make it back to the RadarBox.
In most cases we have found boxes are either severely damaged due to a lightning strike nearby or customers have used antennas kits with no ESD protection and in high ESD areas.
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thanks Terry and support - mine arrives tomorrow so that's very useful info.
I did not know about the positioning of the amp being so important. Thanks!
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No problem Oceans777,
This is what sets this forum apart from others i will not mention,HELP and SUPPORT from all RB users and of course the AirNav team.What is a hobby if we cannot help each other,"A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY",plus we all promote the hobby by using the Forum as a market place of knowledge and experience,better shut up or no doubt my mate Glyn will be giving me an ear bashing on how to stop waffeling on he!he!.
Regards Terry.
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Good morning Terry,
what do you mean by this:
for some reason if its too low it cannot deliver enough D.C current
could you explain a bit more in detail?
A preamp does not "deliver" current", it "draws" current if connected to a power supply
(via Bias Tee [and the inner coax conductor] or individual supply leads)
Kind regards
Karl
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Certainly,
When i originally set up the pre-amp i put it about 18" below the antenna,when i got it all up and running i noticed a drop in local traffic,my wife called and told me there was a noise coming from my antenna.I got the ladders out and up i went,to be greeted at the top by an intermittent loud clicking noise,so down came the whole thing and after testing the D.C current(11.9v) and making sure that nothing was or had been damaged,i rang a radio ham friend and told him about it,he told me that some pre-amps don`t deliver(or draw as you rightly say) full power if they are not at mast head(it seems a bit strange i know,but this guy wouldn`t fob you off),so on a trip to a well known amateur radio shop i took it with me and had it tested,all was fine and the engineer who tested it said exactly the same as my friend,get it as close to the antenna as possible,this i have done and i`ve had no problems since?Maybe you have knowledge on this matter and may shed light on this phenomena if thats what it is.
Regards Terry.
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Did this also mean you shortened the coax cable from the pre-amp to the antenna Terry? I have about a two foot (.6 meters) length of LMR-400 (about the same as EcoFlex but solid core instead of stranded) that I plan to use. The coax from the power side of the amp back inside to the bias t is about 60'.
I can't figure out what electrical 'rule' is preventing the pre-amp from having enough current unless mounted right at masthead. I know they are best mounted as close to the antenna as possible for optimum signal amplification.
I've been using a Dressler ARA2000HDX with a self-contained amp, the PSU shows an output of 12.5 volts which turns into 11.8 volts at the N-connector to the antenna. Then again it has 1000mA where as I think the Elad only outputs 100? Maybe thats the difference. The Dressler only uses what it 'needs' of the 1000mA according to the tech sheet and normally operates within 100 - 200 mA.
Although that has always baffled me too. How can the amp decide it suddenly needs 1000 mA?
I am definitely going to do some reading on diplexers etc today just to answer my own questions.
Sorry for the long ramble, but it's all very interesting to me.
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Hi there Oceans777,
No,i didn`t shorten the feed from the pre-amp to the antenna,but i did secure it half way with a cable tie and taped it.I`m just as baffled as you or maybe my mate meant DC supply,but even then the engineer that checked it out said the same thing,maybe Karl knows the answer?,all i know is that when i did as my mate sugested it works fine and no problems.Don`t worry about the ramble,obviously there are conflicting views and they need to be answered,but as stated with my own experience i have no problems with the pre-amp now.
Regards Terry.
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Hi Terry,
Thanks for that info. I'll place mine the same at the very top under the ground radials. I guess if it's working that's what we care about. Thanks again!
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I hope you get the same results from your Elad as i have,i know they are a little expensive,but like they say,you only get what you pay for and i`m pretty sure you won`t be dissapointed.
Regards Terry,
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P.S. I have 1Metre of feed from the pre-amp to the antenna and 10 meters of thin coax down to the bias tee!
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Has to be better than just attaching the RB antenna to 60' of coax on the roof. My biggest problem are mountains to my north and east. Hoping the amp will let me see aircraft at lower altitudes. Even nearby (3.2 miles) KBUR with no major obstructions between I can only see flights when they hit above 5000.
I ordered an antenna from ScannerMaster too until I can get an SSE 1090SJ mk2
shipped over. I'll post results later today (Pacific Time, US) or tomorrow hopefully :-)
Getting the following polar with just the RB antenna on the roof about 25' up.
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Ok,
Just put a P.S. on the last post for you,good luck and hope you get good results.
Regards Terry.
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Hi Terry and oceans 777
"mysterious" the "clicking", no idea, really don't know, never heard before !!!???
All of your "consultants" correct of course telling you to place the amplifier "as close to the antenna as possible". Otherwise (worst case at the end of the antenna coax [= the receivers input] ) noise, as generated by the coax itself as well will be amplified, thus degrading the "signal to noise ratio" of the signals as "seen" by the receiver. With other words, smaller signals will be masked by noise overlapping them.
This is the ONLY reason for the preamp to be mounted near to the antenna. Concerning its power requirements, it does not matter, whether it is situated at the antenna or at the receiver.
Positive supply voltage will be delivered via the coax's inner conducter, and negative via the outer (shielding) or even vice versa, depending on the preamps needs. Never mind about the amplifiers location in such a setup. The antenna itself of course won't see any supply voltage at all, as it is routed to the preamps INPUT. Its OUTPUT beeing "confronted" with the supply's voltage as delivered by the coax connected to it, simultanously of course beeing the signal path
to the receiver as well.
Finally again: no idea regarding the "clicking". If it was halloween I had, but still a bit too far away, isn't?
Anyway: have fun both of you. We've got a beautiful hobby, with or without "clicking" antennas (or preamps or coaxial cables or whatsoever)
Regards
Karl
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The clicking will be the bypass relay in the Elad preamp. Appears you may have insufficient voltage to activate it. Another thing to check is the DC plug to the Bias T, the size of the centre pin contact may be incorrect causing an intermittent supply.
Cheers,
Peter
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Still, we do not know why it clicks at a frequency only wives can hear.. :-)
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Thank you both Karl and Peter for you time and input on this "strange" event.I think you both have answered the question posed,and i think both of the answers given to me by my mate and the engineer were in good faith but i think(as you both say) it was insufficient power from the 12v DC supply but they both got it the wrong way round,but it all turned out fine so put in down to experience as they say.Yes Karl,a fantastic hobby which can only get better and better(Boys and their toys)as time goes on,thank you both once again.
Regards Terry.
P.S. Shhhhh.Our good ladies my be listening downstairs and find out just what we`re doing with our money,He!He!.
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hope not could be in trouble if she does
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I got my wife to dig a 1.5 meter hole,she thought i was going to put a pond in the garden until she saw the binoculars,map and an old ARP tin hat,bless her she`s been there since 7-30am,i told her i enroled her in the Royal Observer Corps.You know she`s not moaned once today(hoooooray).
Regards while i`m still alive Terry.
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send me your shovel oh great one
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length of LMR-400 (about the same as EcoFlex but solid core instead of stranded) that I plan to use. The coax from the power side of the amp back inside to the bias t is about 60'.
Hi Oceans, get the best/highest grade co-ax you can, if there's any chance of vibration in the wind, go for a multiple core co-ax, single core will start to degrade and fracture if subjected to physical/mechanical forces, why you'll only find "flex" cables in a car, single core is fine in a permanent position, eg house wiring. As I've mentioned before lag connectors in silicone grease (not sealer, esp. not that which smells of vinegar - that will attack copper) which will stop corrosion - far more effective in my experience than self-amalgamating rubber tape, which will degrade and crack in UV light.
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Thanks Jon,
Using Times-Microwave LMR-400 which is outstanding and it's properly secured without having bends or movement. I learned what you're saying the hard way a few years back :-)
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and an old ARP tin hat
What is that supposed to be Terry? (honest question, not yoking) As one that is living on the "continent" this might be something only known by an "islander".
Hi Peter, hope you're doing good! Thanks for the enlightenment regarding the "clicking mystery".
Karl
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and an old ARP tin hat
What is that supposed to be Terry? (honest question, not yoking) As one that is living on the "continent" this might be something only known by an "islander".
Hi Peter, hope you're doing good! Thanks for the enlightenment regarding the "clicking mystery".
Karl
Ahhh ..... you youngsters :-)
An ARP tin hat is the old style British World War 2 Air Raid Precautions (ARP) military helmet. It looks like a large dinner plate bent to the shape of a shallow bowl - ant therefore ideal as a mounting for the standard RB magnetic antenna. You can then wear the "tin hat" and carry your laptop and hardware receiver and you have the ultimate portable setup :-)
The ARP Warden was the chap who went around making sure that no lights were showing to attract enemy bombers. Have you seen the excellent BBC comedy series "Dad's Army"
"Put that light out!"
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Ahhhhhh……………..Got it allocator !!!
and of course have seen the ARP on many occasions. My favorite picture: a british “Bren Carrier” and its crew, all of them wearing “ARPs”.
You can then wear the "tin hat" and carry your laptop and hardware receiver and you have the ultimate portable setup :-)
Excellent !!! a lightning protector even in addition, (for the RB and laptop of course) as it will pickup all of a lightnings energy, bleeding it through the ARP porter, “tin hat” and porter finally melting, but the RB surviving.
Anyone willing to do “Betatesting” ? Allocator will arrange with AirNav.
And thanks sooooo much for the “youngsters” Allocator. The one, that’s just posting is approaching its 70th.
Feeling good talking to all of you,
Karl
PS.: “ESD” is something else in this concert, has been extremly stressed before , no discussion on that any more. AirNav won’t like it. ;)
K.
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Karl,
Congratulations on your 70th when it arrives,but i`m no spring chicken and no doubt many other users aren`t either,but although the exterior may not look so young,the interior still holds a brain that still feels young and lively,enjoy life while you can,and of course the RB.
Regards Terry.
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Enjoyed the above very much, as you sure might suggest, Terry.
Regards, and of course we'll meet again in the forum
Karl
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happy birthday karl still no report on the pre-amp failures yet will pm you when they come in
paul
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Thanks so much Paul,
"expect" your PM regarding the above.
Karl