AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: Danielsen on August 21, 2008, 12:22:42 PM
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Hi all.
I'm a really new user with AirNav Radarbox and ADS-B in generel. I'm not a very technical guy unlike some of you might be, so I'm not going to make an antenna myself. Anyway, I'm looking for a new antenna and an amplifier to work with and enhance Radarbox.
What I've come up with in my search:
Antenna: http://www.thiecom.de/gp-1090-antenne.html?sid=748038ab6ef6d3efaf85f16dadc03c38 (http://www.thiecom.de/gp-1090-antenne.html?sid=748038ab6ef6d3efaf85f16dadc03c38) Maybe you could suggest another one for almost the same price? If any better?!
Amplifiers: http://www.kuhne-electronic.de/en/shop/143_Low_Noise_Amplifier (http://www.kuhne-electronic.de/en/shop/143_Low_Noise_Amplifier) Would any of these (which ones) work with RB?
EDIT: I've also found this site and it looks pretty good. Would it still work with an Ecoflex-10 Cable?
http://www.wimo.com/cgi-bin/verteiler.pl?url=radarbox-airnav_e.html (http://www.wimo.com/cgi-bin/verteiler.pl?url=radarbox-airnav_e.html)
Would I need anything else to make it work?
Any help is appriciated... Thanks!
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Take a look at the Antenna Kit recommended by Airnav at http://www.airnavsystems.com/radarbox/order.html
It contains:
- GP-1090 Antenna
- 1m low loss cable Ecoflex-10 with N connectors
- Mast pre-amplifier AS-1090
- 10 or 20m low loss cable Ecoflex-10 with N connectors
- AS-1090BT Bias-T for DC-Feed
- 1m Cable BNC/SMA
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Ok thanks tarbat. It's the same price level as in the last link (EDIT) I posted.
Will have a look into that. Thanks again! :)
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Danielson, yes, that looks the same to me.
On a more general question about antenna. Does anyone know if using a GP-1090 antenna and a AS-1090 mast pre-amplifier would improve reception even when used inside a loft space?
I'm just considering whether I can improve reception with a pre-amp, since I can't externally mount.
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It will improve reception however the best improvement is getting it mounted higher.
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My antenna is as high as it can go now, and I can't mount externally.
I'm looking for something that can help improve reception through concrete roof tiles and concrete block walls. Current range averages around 80 miles. I know, I'm looking for the impossible, but just wondered if a pre-amp would help much.
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Thanks a lot! I'm going for the one from AirNav! It's easier and at the same price!
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Mmmm....
As a retailer and definitely not wishing to get into trouble for posting links to my products - and be accused of spamming! Can I please give my alternatives?
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As a retailer and definitely not wishing to get into trouble for posting links to my products - and be accused of spamming! Can I please give my alternatives?
I'd certainly be interested, particularly if you've got something suitable for mounting inside a loft that may improve reception. Post on this thread, or PM me if necessary.
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Thanks a lot! I'm going for the one from AirNav! It's easier and at the same price!
Danielsen, did you order one from Airnav, and have you received it yet?
Just wondering, as I ordered last Friday and I'm still awaiting delivery - and can't wait to get it all mounted up and working!!
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PM Your order details and we will check whats going on.
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Im going to be looking at buying an external Antenna soon, and just wondering what peoples view on the 1090SJ mk 2, which is considerably cheeper...
http://www.ssejim.co.uk/26-sseads1090sj.htm
I was advised about the same comanys VHF Antenna too which is on the same website.
James
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PM Your order details and we will check whats going on.
Support, you can ignore my PM. Parcel just arrived - thanks!
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James.
Contact rocket, he helped me and i'm getting great results.
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Well, I've got my Airnav antenna kit installed now, and my immediate reaction is ..................... Looks good!! Antenna is installed in exactly the same place in my loft.
First impressions are that there's more aircraft in the list, and I don't appear to be losing contact with aircraft so often now (the trails have less breaks in them).
One word of warning - all the instructions are in German!!
Now I need to leave it running for a few days to get a decent polar chart. So far no aircraft have flown to the north of me :( This is what I've got in one hour of running.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2149/)
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Wow how did you create that chart? Is that a new feature with 2.0?
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I use Excel. Take the data from the D012.dat file and paste into Excel to create a "Filled Radar" chart. I wanted someway of comparing old vs. new.
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Thanks for that technique, Tarbat - I've never played with Excel Radar charts before - now I understand how they work!
Do you know what the other .DAT files hold - any more interesting stuff there?
Rod
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Using ur own inititive to the max! Good work!
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Tarbat,
How was the polar diagram above produced ?
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Using this Excel spreadsheet. Paste the contents of D012.dat file into cells D2..D361.
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hello tarbat but how do you get different values in your D012 file? reset polar diagram but when i put data into excel it was the same as before must be something easy i'm missing.
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D012.dat only gets updated when you exit Radarbox, so you have to close Radarbox before getting the new values from D012.dat.
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So, after 1 day of using the new antenna/pre-amp, I'm very impressed. My expectations were quite low, but I'm surprised how effective the antenna and pre-amp are. My antenna is located in the loft of a bungalow, with concrete roof tiles and concrete gable-end walls. Main improvements:
1. Less breakup of trails, indicating more constant reception of aircraft.
2. More aircraft in list. In fact the CPU usage has increased from an average of 8% to around 13% now.
3. Greater range in the directions I had problems with. New polar chart, showing the standard antenna vs. the new antenna/pre-amp in RED.
(http://)
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Im going to be looking at buying an external Antenna soon, and just wondering what peoples view on the 1090SJ mk 2, which is considerably cheeper...
http://www.ssejim.co.uk/26-sseads1090sj.htm
I was advised about the same comanys VHF Antenna too which is on the same website.
James
Bailey,
I have his antenna and find it very good. Build quality is excellent and reception is first class. I think its very hard to compare different systems unless you are in the same location so i based my decision on a previous purchase of the airband vhf antenna which is outstanding.
I don't think you will be dissappointed.
All the best,
Bob
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Sounds good!
I currently have a 5 foot vertical scaffolding pole attached to my chimney, and wanting to attach both 1090 and VHF antenna to the same pole, is this feasable?
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After a few days of running, I've now got a decent polar diagram. Adding the new antenna and pre-amp has given me a 31% increase in area covered, so was well worth the money!! There's still a couple of areas where aircraft simply haven't flown yet (NW), so I expect maybe a 45% increase in area covered eventually. And I can stll have the antenna in the loft :)
Adding a better antenna and pre-amp has helped fill in the gaps that are blocked by buildings and my own roof and gable end walls. It obviously can't increase the maximum range achieved.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3168/2812920995_6e228d741f_o.jpg)
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Hi, would someone be able to tell me if i could mount the 1090 at the bottom of the mast? instead of at the top. as it wold be easier to fix because i would have to take the 16ft mast down on a two storey house if not.
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Hey tarbat and everybody :)
It's just fantastic! I've placed my GP-1090 on top of the roof 8 m. above the ground, and it's simply stunning! I live only a few km. from the geographical center of Denmark and I've got the whole of Denmark (incl. Bornholm) and southern Sweden covered.
As you can see on the diagram from Excel, I've got a lot more coverage with the GP-1090 antenna with the pre-amplifier compared to the standard ANRB antenna. The standard antenna was also placed outside on the roof, but "only" 5 m. above the ground, building up the polar diagram for 3 days. You can clearly see it wasn't placed that well, but with the fairly short cable it was the best location.
But with 744% more coverage the Antenna Kit from Airnav Systems is well worth the money!
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2451/polarchartexcelwp1.jpg)
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6295/polarchartrbbo0.jpg)
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That's an excellent improvement Danielsen - you must be very pleased with the results.
My polar chart continues to build - the Highland skies are very busy today!
One disadvantage of the new antenna and pre-amp. My aircraft list is often longer than one page now!!! I think I'll need to refine my timeout settings (currently 20,80).
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3189/2817619370_4ee0e3d411_m.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarbat/2817619370/sizes/o/)
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Hi, would someone be able to tell me if i could mount the 1090 at the bottom of the mast? instead of at the top. as it wold be easier to fix because i would have to take the 16ft mast down on a two storey house if not.
If you do try, mount the 1090 as far away from the mast as possible. The closer the 1090 is to the mast the more coverage area the mast will block.
CK
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Hi, would someone be able to tell me if i could mount the 1090 at the bottom of the mast? instead of at the top. as it wold be easier to fix because i would have to take the 16ft mast down on a two storey house if not.
If you do try, mount the 1090 as far away from the mast as possible. The closer the 1090 is to the mast the more coverage area the mast will block.
CK
Thanks for the reply Ken.
Will be investing in a 1090 within the month i think.
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That's an excellent improvement Danielsen - you must be very pleased with the results.
My polar chart continues to build - the Highland skies are very busy today!
Yes I'm VERY pleased! My expectations were a lot smaller, and I had my doubts when buying the antenna kit, but they are far gone now :D I see that you're using a Uniden UBC800XLT. Does the "Remote Control" software come with the radio, and what kind of antenna do you use? Is it VHF or UHF or both? Please share your experience and "set-up" as i only have a old Uniden UBC220XLT handheld. :)
Oh, and by the way a very nice method to show before and after comparison with the excel chart. Thanks :)
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Danielsen, I use bcTools to control the UBC800XLT. It's free from http://www.bctool.org/
I use a discone antenna for UHF and VHF airband.
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By using Tarbats wonderful Excel Sheet, this shows the difference between having my supplied 12" magmount antenna initially in my loft / bedroom, and now newly mounted 6 feet above the chimney stack on a scaffold pole, with very good results. The RB Box had to be fixed to the wall as the cable wasnt long enough for it to sit nicely on a table or shelf!
Got a USB Repeater Extension system of 5m to my PC.
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Tarbat: which discone antenna you use? Which model?
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ScanKing discone from Maplins. Not the best, I'm still thinking of replacing it with something more specific to UHF/VHF airband.
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Tarbat,
Would recommend the Diamond D777 antenna.Just bought one from Radioworld uk and extremely pleased with results.
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And you use the antennas with any pre-amplifier or just antenna+cable to radio?
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Do not use pre-amp. Antenna-cable-radio
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Just one more: what cable are you using? Thanks.
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RG 8 super XX coax.
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Thanks.
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So the Diamond D777 antenna is used for both 118-138 Mhz VHF airband and UHF military in just one antenna?
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is Westflex 103 overkill for VHF Scanning? I think I might buy all my cable at once when sorting the 1090 setup.
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Danielson--That is correct.Diamond 777 is designed to receive both VHF and UHF transmissions.
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Danielson--That is correct.Diamond 777 is designed to receive both VHF and UHF transmissions.
Alright thanks alot. Cheers mate
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can any one confirm is this the best set up for airnav
- GP-1090 Antenna
- 1m low loss cable Ecoflex-10 with N connectors
- Mast pre-amplifier AS-1090
- 10 or 20m low loss cable Ecoflex-10 with N connectors
- AS-1090BT Bias-T for DC-Feed
- 1m Cable BNC/SMA
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I suggest you read the feedback of others using this equipment in this forum.
I will refrain from further comments since we are the supplier of this antenna kit :-)
Rgds,
Ekki/WiMo
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Wer3Y, yes that's exactly the antenna and pre-amp that I'm now using, and that has given me a 64% increase in area coverage.
You can either buy it direct from Airnav ( http://www.airnavsystems.com/radarbox/order.html ), or from Wimo.
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Wer3Y
Since i use the Wimo Kit antenna (10m wire) I had a very big increase in reception, I can't quantify the improvement as tarbat did but I can say it was brutal...!!!
I live very near Lisbon Airport (LPPT) and I pick up flights normally around 200NM pratically in every direction (one of these days I remember one at 215NM). However the Polar diagram says I can go until +/- 315NM (probably in a day with excellent reception conditions).
With the supplied ANRB antenna 80NM or 100MN were good results. Please take note of geography of your local, this factor is relevant to a good reception.
In my personal case I have no doubt, I strongly recommend the Wimo Kit for ANRB.
Brgds
CA
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Take a look at the Antenna Kit recommended by Airnav at http://www.airnavsystems.com/radarbox/order.html
It contains:
- GP-1090 Antenna
- 1m low loss cable Ecoflex-10 with N connectors
- Mast pre-amplifier AS-1090
- 10 or 20m low loss cable Ecoflex-10 with N connectors
- AS-1090BT Bias-T for DC-Feed
- 1m Cable BNC/SMA
hello RB friends
I have been reading from you about a high gain external antenna kit and having seen the alternatives (found here) , I reached the conclusion that I will go for the AN solution.
I made my order!
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I have just installed the new external antenna/pre amp from AirNav, and have noticed that when the pre-amp is powered the Radarbox actually receives LESS aircraft than when the pre-amp is not powered.
Can anyone shed any light on why this might be so??
The new aerial without power receives more than my old antenna did, Just curious what is going on with the preamp that is actually degrading the signal.
Its cabled like so - Looks to me like the cabling is all correct.
(http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/340/20091017163342.jpg)
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What's your the type and length of the cable you have in use?
Because it might be possible that if you are using an extremely lossless cable like the Ecoflex 15 at a very short length, the activation of the Amp can cause an "over steering" of the receiver in the Radar Box.
A second issue might be a to "small" power supply which can drive the preamp into a state of "not functioning as aspected".
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What's your the type and length of the cable you have in use?
A second issue might be a to "small" power supply which can drive the preamp into a state of "not functioning as aspected".
Its the Antenna kit from AirNav, so
- RADAR-EXTENDER Antenna
- 1m low loss cable: westflex-103 with N connectors
- Mast pre-amplifier AS-1090
- 10m low loss cable: westflex-103 with N connectors
- AS-1090BT Bias-T for DC-Feed
- 1m cable with BNC/SMA
I've also tried 2 different power supplies, both 12v DC 1.2amp, -ve earth.
The Aerial itself with no PSU is actually working pretty well with no PSU, I'm wondering if the Radarbox itself is supplying some power, or whether if I sort out the pre-amp issue I might get even better results!
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Hi PJM,
The Elad preamp is fitted with a relay which bypasses the amplifier when the DC is removed. The amplifier may be faulty.
Cheers,
Peter
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The amplifier may be faulty.
This could be true.
Long Shot: By plugging in the PWR supply you somehow may coupling in other signals with the frequency (1090Mhz) you try to receive.
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Where have you put the amplifier? It must be with the aerial not at the bottom as this will increase noise as well as signal.
J.
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Where have you put the amplifier? It must be with the aerial not at the bottom as this will increase noise as well as signal.
Its about 1 foot below the Antenna, its pretty much impossible to install it any other way with the type of connectors on each device/cable/flyleads.
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Long Shot: By plugging in the PWR supply you somehow may coupling in other signals with the frequency (1090Mhz) you try to receive.
Have now tried it with 3 different PSU's, of different types, pretty unlikely they would all be producing 12v DC with some spurious 1090Mhz signals!
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The Elad preamp is fitted with a relay which bypasses the amplifier when the DC is removed. The amplifier may be faulty
That would explain it, the Antenna is higher than my old one which accounts for the better signal reception when the amp is bypassed.
Not looking good for the pre-amp :(
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It is nearly impossible, that a switching mode power supply would generate 1090MHz harmonics by itself, because they usually use switching frequencies of about 50kHz up to 160 kHz. This is more ore less 5000 times lower as the 1090Mhz. At 1090Mhz the PSU harmonics shall be as high as the noise itself.
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I had a problem with my Elad pre-amp last year. It was supplied by Wimo, and they arranged for it to be replaced. In the meantime I purchased a Kuhne pre-amp and Bias-T, which has been running faultlessly ever since - the Elad is now my hot spare...
DC
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I had a problem with my Elad pre-amp last year. It was supplied by Wimo, and they arranged for it to be replaced. In the meantime I purchased a Kuhne pre-amp and Bias-T, which has been running faultlessly ever since - the Elad is now my hot spare...
DC
Thank you for the intel!