AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: dumpty on August 20, 2008, 07:37:27 AM
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Hi,
Thank you Airnav for the great new version.Excellent!
My only problem is the amount of routes showing is exactly the same as before with loads missing.The routes are in Database Explorer but are not showing for the flights on the display or in the routes column.
Am i doing anything wrong?
Many Thanks
Simon
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Is that on local aircraft (in the MyFlights tab) or network aircraft (in the Network tab)?
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Hi Tarbat
Both of them.
Simon
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Okay. I wonder if this is the old problem of blank routes on network aircraft populating into local flights when they come in range.
Maybe Airnav can answer. Do network aircraft get their routes from the local Navdata routes table, or from what's shared over the network? And what happens when that network aircraft comes into local range - does ANRB do a lookup on the Navdata routes table?
EDIT 1: I can answer the first part of my question. ANRB does NOT get the route information from the Navdata routes table for network aircraft. This shows network aircraft AFR040, which has a route (LFPG-KSEA) in my routes table:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3006/2781124226_7502925e47_o.jpg)
EDIT 2: And to answer my second question. When AFR040 transitioned into local range and appeared on MyFlights, the route was still blank, even though there's an entry in the routes table.
EDIT 3: By turning OFF network flights, and then turning OFF hardware flights, and then turning hardware flights back ON, the route then appeared for AFR040.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3264/2780283387_b3591cfae6_o.jpg)
So, looks like a repeat of the bug report at http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=687.msg5230#msg5230
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Thanks Tarbat we will investigate that.
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Hi
Just to add to this I have some routes populating but I would say 80% to 90% of flights on the map are not showing routing information. This is on both local and network traffic.
Currently I have AFR1168, BAW085 and EXS207 all minus route information but when I check the Routes table via Database Explorer they are all there and are correct.
I have spent the last two days very close to LHR and hardly any of the aircraft I saw whilst there were showing route information. This happens on both numeric and alpha numeric combinations of flight number.
Whwn I check Database Exploere I can see routes that have been added yesterday and today so the information seems to be there but it's just not displaying.
I switched to 2009 on Wednesday night and I am fairly sure this worked well then as I can distinctly remembered that it was good that alpha numeric flight numbers were now showing route information. Of the 19 or so aircraft I have on screen right now only 3 of them are displaying route info.
Should I have copied some file or other before the upgrade ?
Thanks
Wayne
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Wayne,
Think you have corrupted something as this site below using 2009 near LHR shows the route info for nearly all. Were you adding or changing files? using the network?
http://www.akzah.com/blog/static.php?page=radarboxLondon
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Wayne, try running it with local traffic only for a few hours, and you'll probably see the routes appearing then. If the aircraft FIRST appears in the network list, then it will not get the route data from your local routes table.
Not a long term solution of course, but it will at least prove the point.
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The network will be upgrade soon to have that info.
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What exactly would I have corrupted ?
Yes I can see route info on the screen you have attached but I can only report what I saw. I was running RB with no internet connection present in the house and I haven't made any changes to anything. I am now at home and the same is happening here. I now have 21 flights on screen and not a single one is showing route info.
Thanks Tarbat, I will use local only for a while and see what happens but in effect that is what I was doing for the two days I was in Windsor.
If I have corrupted something then can I do something to rectify it and more to the point what do you mean by "The network will be upgraded soon to have that info" ?
Wayne
I am often in Windsor and always saw route information prior to installing 2009 but honestly the numbers of flights showing routes this time was negligible.
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Wayne,
If you have no internet it can't connect to our server and get the latest routes it picks up.
Example, ifs BAW036 appears and its not in the local database it then checks on the server and gets the route data.
Don't worry about the network we mentioned, if you weren't running it at the time thats not your issue.
Edit we have reread the post:
As mentioned above by Tarbat there is issue regarding transitioning aircraft from network to local with no routes. This should be rectified soon. This might be the issue you are having at home.
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Excuse me if I am missing the point here but I have internet right now at home and have very few aircraft on the map displaying route info. When I have been away I have no access to internet, just as I wouldn't have if I were at any airport, and I saw no route information and I used to see this information when using 1.5
The flights I have picked up are in my local database as per the three examples I gave you earlier so I don't need to get the info from your server becuse it is already known to the table 'routes'
I checked whilst I was away because it was so unusual that I didn't see the information and in all cases the routes table held the info. I'm not talking about anything exotic here but very frequent, regular BA flights
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Wayne,
Were they being tracked on the network first as per the bug mentioned?
If they weren't reinstall 2009 again, it sounds like something went wrong with your route table then.
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Well as I see it not by my RB because I was using the kit without any internet so I couldn't have had the newtwork connect. Where I stayed had no internet provision (strange I know !)
Will try Tarbat's solution for a while but then do a re-install.
I presume I can just use the link to install 2.0 again, I don't have to delete anything in case of file conflicts ?
Incidentally, what file do I take a copy of to make sure I keep my log as i forgot last time and lost my logs ! If there are any other files I should secure I would be most grateful for your advice.
Wayne
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Incidentally, what file do I take a copy of to make sure I keep my log as i forgot last time and lost my logs ! If there are any other files I should secure I would be most grateful for your advice.
Wayne
Hi Wayne,
Take a copy of MyLog.db3 from your RB\data folder. You may also want to take a copy of NavData.db3 from the same location if you want to keep any changes that have been added (new aircraft, routes etc.) since you did the install.
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Sorry to ask this again - I've asked it in another thread but got no reply and this thread is probably more appropriate.
Could either Support or Dev confirm / deny the following:
My belief is that network route data should be added by AirNav at the server before the network data is propogated to the client machines that are requesting it i.e. downloads with all the other network data and no need for client machines to request it (thank goodness). Currently I only seem to be getting route data for network flights if it already exists in my local route table but I believe the servers are being updated over the next two weeks so the scenario as described previously will ultimately apply.
Are those 2 statements correct?
If so could I be so bold as to repeat my feature request (apologies if Dev have already added it to their wish list).
What I'd like to see is a local process whereby the (already) downloaded network route data is checked against and added to the local route table if it needs updating or is missing when that flight is highlighted (similar to the server request for aircraft data / pictures but a local process only). Obviously it may be wise to make this a switchable user option so that those with low end machines aren't hammering their processors.
TIA
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Support / Dev - any info on the above?
Also whilst here I thought of another feature request regarding the routes.
Would it be possible in a future version to add the airport country to the information listed for the From, To and Via lines when viewing information for a specific flight (next to the aircraft picture). Most of the time the airport is probably known to the user but now that we'll all be getting more network route information it might be useful for those unfamiliar airports to understand where they are.
Cheers
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I have the same problem. It doesn't seem to happen every single time I would say that 60-70% of the flights that transition from Network to my flights do not show the route hen it comes into my view. I have to disable both network and my RB then start my RB once all the routes show up I can start network again.
Not really a workaround though.
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Looks like I missed a post above so will explain:
1.) Flights are picked up and data is sent to the network
2.) Network Data is checked is route are added from a local database on the server
3.) Data is sent back to your RBs
What is going to happen is that at stage 2 it will also look up on the online database hence should have more route data on the network flights. (This should happen in the next few weeks)
However we agree that its good but when they go from network to local flights they should then recheck your local file.
This unlike stage 2 will need a code change to your RB software and hence this will be done in the next software update we hope.
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OK. Standing by and thanks for the explanation.
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Thanks for the explanation Support, that's how I thought it would be.
Does this mean that 'missing' routes from the network will get added to the local routes table (via a local process of course) as per my suggestion or is that down as a 'possible' for a future version only at present.
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Hi
I'm still not sure what is happening with routes - they seem to be in a bit of a mess.
I am using RB and purely picking up local traffic. Network is not connected but I have wireless internet at home so I do have an active internet connection.
I have just seen flight AAL949 and the route displaying with the aircraft was KORD-KSEA.
I checked the routes table in Database Explorer and the attribute NO shows KBNA, the attribute ND shows MHZM, the attribute NV shows KMIA and the attribute CH is blank.
The BAA website confirms this flight is really EGLL-KORD. So where is RB getting the information from because none of it seems to be correct in this case ?
Wayne
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If the attrubite CH is blank it did not download anything for that flight. That route detail was already in the database.
We have a RB in London which is using then online database and its uploading screenshots and nearly 98% of ADS-B flights have the routes and are correct:
http://www.akzah.com/blog/static.php?page=radarboxLondon
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Yes, I understand what you are saying and I'm not being at all critical - I'm just a bit bemused by it.
So, the attribute CH, if populated, shows it's route info recently downloaded and stored on the local table and this is up to date information from some server or other. I get that.
If a route already exists in the local table and has no entry in CH then how exactly does RB handle it
Should it look to a server and write the up to date route and populate CH ?
Should it ignore the route as it's already known to the local table
The most confusing thing is it was displaying a route neither fom a server nor what was actually in the local table.
I don't dispute that your London based box is doing things correctly but here is evidence that mine, and maybe others, aren't.
When you say 'using the online database' is this what we all access when we are internet connected and is it consulted for both local and networked traffic ?
Wayne
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If a route already exists in the local table and has no entry in CH then how exactly does RB handle it
Hi Wayne,
Last week I did the following:
in my localdatabase I changed the INCOMPLETE (AirNav) data of flight ANZ38; I changed VHHH-NZAA into EGLL-VHHH-NZAA and wrote in the CH field 20080904000000. The next day, September 5th, (when this flight must have been in my area of reception again) the route information was overwritten with.......... the INCOMPLETE information so it is now VHHH-NZAA again. Since I saw this I have given up all my further endeavours to try to make corrections in the route database.
You understand that I am also not happy with this. All that bustle with the routes when a new version comes out has taken verry much time from me in the past. And since version 1.5 (where I have all under control) it looks again, with the release of version 2.0, that all the work was for nothing again.
Verry frustrating but there is hope: AirNav Support told me yesterday that they are working on a solution which is to be expected in the next coming weeks.
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John,
Think you have confused a few issues and made them into one. The issue you mention was only affecting routes which had 2 Legs otherwise it should work fine.
The other issue was that the network does not use the online routes yet hence a lot of them appear blank and then once they transition into local flights they do not check the database. This is going be rectified soon.
I assume most of your updates were on single leg flights and hence they should not be affected.
Wayne,
The version running in London is exactly the same you have. No changes it to it except its not using the network so it does not fall into the issue mentioned above.
"The most confusing thing is it was displaying a route neither from a server nor what was actually in the local table."
We haven't seen this before so we would be interested to know if anyone else has had this.
If the CH values are not there it should try and check against the database on our server for new updated route.
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I checked the routes table in Database Explorer and the attribute NO shows KBNA, the attribute ND shows MHZM, the attribute NV shows KMIA and the attribute CH is blank.
The BAA website confirms this flight is really EGLL-KORD. So where is RB getting the information from because none of it seems to be correct in this case ?
I suspect the flight database schema was designed by someone who has never worked in the airline industry and who doesn't understand the difference between a leg and a segment.
Presumably NO, ND and NV stand for Origin, Destination and Via - which is a daft way to implement a flight route database as it's not unknown for some flight numbers (particularly cargo ones) to have as many as 8 or more legs (i.e. an origin, destination and 7 intermediate "via" points.
Every programmer knows that there are only 3 numbers you have to worry about: zero, one and lots.
The number two (as in a flight consisting of two legs, A to C via B) doesn't get a mention in my copy of Database 101 :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_normalization
HTH
Dave
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Hi Support
Here is another example. I have just seen EXS375 which is displaying on screen and in the My Flights list as LEIB-EGNM when in fact it is EGNM-LEMH.
Database Explorer confirms this this time with EGNM in NO, LEMH in ND and the CH field holds the value 20080823151229.
The confusing issue here is where are the displayed values coming from ?
Wayne
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I suspect the flight database schema was designed by someone who has never worked in the airline industry and who doesn't understand the difference between a leg and a segment.
Hi David,
As I mentioned before this simple exemple:
They give as route for BAW7 EGLL-CYUL. How is this possible? It's EGLL-RJAA as far I know for many years! And this is only one example.
I am verry sorry to say so.
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They give as route for BAW7 EGLL-CYUL. How is this possible? It's EGLL-RJAA as far I know for many years! And this is only one example.
Yes, that's a different kind of confusion, caused by the mistaken assumption that you can take an alphanumeric callsign (i.e. in this case BAW7MY, the callsign used by EGLL-CYUL flight BAW95), knock off the letters and then use the resulting flight number as the lookup value.
BAW7 is a completely different flight from BAW7MY.
HTH
Dave
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I still find the only reliable, automated, way of getting accurate route data is to:
1. Use Planeplotter, reading data from the ANRB recorder file.
2. Use FD6 to do route lookups from Planeplotter.
3. Daily, export new routes from FD6 and import into the routes table in ANRB, inserting new routes and over-writing the erroneous routes already in the table.
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Yes but my issue is that on occasions the values in the routes table are not being read be they existing table entries or entries added since 2009 by RB itself. Yesterday a flight EGNM-LEMH, added by RB as the CH field was populated was displaying on the map as LEIB-ENGM.
Today I have seen AMC139 displaying as LMML-EGCC, RYR5GC displaying EIDW-EGCC when they both should have been the other way around and both were added previously by RB as denoted by the entry in the CH attribute.
Maybe the information on the server it looks up is wrong.
Now it's not a huge problem to me but I what I find confusing is that once a route has been noted and stored in the table, what stops RB from reading the table entry and displaying the right information it has previously recorded. Both the RYR and AMC flights I saw today were correct in the table (and had CH entries) so what is over-riding them being looked up and displayed correctly the next time they are picked up ?
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I've been unhappy with the routes system for a long time, I can't readily put my finger on it, as I'm no database expert, but there certainly seems to be something fundamentally flawed about the whole thing.
I hope it can be sorted out soon.
DC
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As the route data comes from another source (not us) which is dynamic and changing dependent on filed routes any such issue with the routes being incorrect we pass on to them.
While we won't say there name they are quite large and well known on the Internet so hopefully any issue there end will be rectified.
Unfournately as am I sure you are all aware getting route data and look ups is far from child's play. Even Flight Dispatcher programs in ATCs centers have issues with this.
Just to bring this back, even Professionals are amazed by the data and amount of details on view in RadarBox as some of there systems still don't have them :)
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Sorry, professionals are what?
DC
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Changed the word, Sunday issues :)
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Support
I am with you all the way on this but this doesn't explain why stored and correct information is not re-displayed on next contact. I'm no database expert either but in these examples the data has been fetched correctly from a server (or so I assume as I haven't keyed the info and the the CH date is populated) and is there to be seen in the routes table when interrogated.
Where I get lost is why on the next intercept of the same flight on the same route doesn't do a read of the table routes and display what it finds. In the EGNM-LEMH scenario, where on earth did LEIB come from ? The crew don't key it and the table held correct information.
Maybe it's one of those things !
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Hi All en AirNav Support,
To be honest: it looks AirNav is busy to repair their routedatabase. This afternoon I was happy to see that BAW7 now have the correct information. It is EGLL-RJAA now.
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If you have the time take a look at SHT9P as it comes into your area. It's really EGPH-EGLL and thats what routes says but the screen clearly shows it as EGLL-EGPH.
I'll shut up now !
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We have already explained this route problem (that BTW happens to less than 1% of them). It is related to the provider from where we get the routes from. we are still waiting for them to correct this situation.
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I've checked to see what FD6 gets for SHT9P, and on 19th August it came up with EGPH-EGLL.
So Airnav, can you try using the 3 lookup services that FD6 uses. As in my replies to Andre on 11/7 and 19/8, you'll need to use all three to get reliable results:
1. flytecomm
2. flightstats.com
3. flightaware.com
Or even see if Dave Reid will let you use his route lookup service at http://www.flightroutelookup.com/FlightRoute/
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Easy said then done Tarbat.
Unlike some addon software we cannot just poll each website for information and gather it (I am sure you know why). We would need to reach an agreement with them which is costly and also you might be aware some of those are our competitors in other software we sell.
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Yes, I do inderstand Airnav's problem in this. But you need to manage people's expectations. In my opinion, unless you can use a range of route lookup services, it will never be 100% accurate.
Far better that Airnav do a single lookup for each route, rather than the SBS1/FD6 approach where every single user does a route lookup.
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Or even see if Dave Reid will let you use his route lookup service at http://www.flightroutelookup.com/FlightRoute/
FlightRouteLookup.com is open to all.
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<Flight>
<FlightNumber>SHT9P</FlightNumber>
<Callsign>Shuttle 9P</Callsign>
<Leg>
<Origin>
<ICAOCode>EGPH</ICAOCode>
<IATACode>EDI</IATACode>
<AirportName>EDINBURGH/TURNHOUSE</AirportName>
<Country>UNITED KINGDOM</Country>
</Origin>
<Destination>
<ICAOCode>EGLL</ICAOCode>
<IATACode>LHR</IATACode>
<AirportName>LONDON/HEATHROW</AirportName>
<Country>UNITED KINGDOM</Country>
</Destination>
<GCDistanceNM>288</GCDistanceNM>
<DistanceFromOriginNM>251</DistanceFromOriginNM>
<DistanceFromDestinationNM>38</DistanceFromDestinationNM>
</Leg>
</Flight>
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Yes but this is a customer won't pay extra but wants more situation :)
Without giving too much away we are using one of the biggest online route databases out there so it should be pretty much accurate. If there are any faults in the routes it would be affecting there business as well so we hope any issues will be rectified soon.
However for us to join forces with others we would then certainly have to up some of the costs. Even if we did the single look up without an agreement we would risking a lot and its risk we will not be willing to take.
DaveReid - we may be contact with you if the aboves database is not rectified.
Just to clarify I am sure we are right in saying this is not happening to all flights but less than 5% are affected.
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As a major instigator of this I do accept and agree that the amount of flights showing these defects is very low and it in no means detracts from the enjoyment of using RB.
However, if the routes table already holds correct information (as it in the majority of cases does) then surely RB should read from it's local source firstly rather than somewhere else otherwise what is the point of comitting data to the database if it is only to be ignored in future.
This is just me trying to understand the logic behind it all !
Wayne
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Wayne,
Sorry you have mentioned that before and its got lost in all the posts. Yes we agree with you and that would be a software bug and it is being looked at.
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can someone please enlighten me on what this routes is about, as i dont have RB yet, are these routes the actual routes airlines use, ie hi routes and low routes, if so are these incorporated in the software so we can see what jet airway an aircraft is using?
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can someone please enlighten me on what this routes is about, as i dont have RB yet, are these routes the actual routes airlines use, ie hi routes and low routes, if so are these incorporated in the software so we can see what jet airway an aircraft is using?
No. It's purely a reference to the origin and destination airports for a given flight number - nothing to do with how the aircraft navigates from A to B.
The issues currently being debated are:
a) how to ensure that this information is correct
and
b) the best way to handle a flight that has several intermediate stops
HTH
Dave
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To be honest: it looks AirNav is busy to repair their routedatabase. This afternoon I was happy to see that BAW7 now have the correct information. It is EGLL-RJAA now.
Hi All,
Unfortunately I have to correct myself today. BAW7 is today EGLL-CYUL again....
I do not spend one word to this subject anymore. In other words: I am fed up with it.
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hi back to my initial question, so does RB also have the Jetairways incorporated in the software, so if i had RB i could see the ac following a particular airway? i know another person who has the "other" box and he broadcasts in live on the net and i can actually see the aircraft following a jet airway, is this also available in RB?
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hi back to my initial question, so does RB also have the Jetairways incorporated in the software, so if i had RB i could see the ac following a particular airway? i know another person who has the "other" box and he broadcasts in live on the net and i can actually see the aircraft following a jet airway, is this also available in RB?
Jetairways is not on the routes list no. You will see iy on the screen but not route info.
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ok thanks, thats a real shame, as now i can see actual routes the aircraft is flying on the "other" one.
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Clayton,
It is possible to show the airways and air routes on RadarBox - you can use exactly the same outline files as used by the SBS-1, although it does depend on where you are in the world as to what is available. I'm sure RadarBox has soe built in anyway.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here. What is the link to the live page you are referring to, then we can see what you want. I can then set up my RadarBox the same and show you on my FTP upload page.
Allocator
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hi Allocator, this kind gentleman is broadcasting his SBS-1 box on the net, as you can see it has jet airways out of brisbane, and the ac follow the tracks, i was wondering if RB has something similiar?
http://www.balus.info/
click on live radar.
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Yes, Radarbox has Airways as standard
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He's talking about JETAirways not airways.
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He's talking about JETAirways not airways.
No, he's talking about jet airways [airways used by jets], not JetAirways, or even Jet Airways.
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sweet thanks tarbat, thats what i was after!
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Just to resurrect this thread (I think it's important) is there any news on the routes issue being resolved in the near future, Airnav?
In an earlier post you said: "We have a RB in London which is using then online database and its uploading screenshots and nearly 98% of ADS-B flights have the routes and are correct"
Take a look at this typical screenshot - yes, I know it's in France, but:
There are approximately 41 live (from my antenna) flights on screen, of them only 7 show routes (that's only 17% at best - nowhere near 98%)
Of those 41, 21 are flights operatedby UK/Irish airlines and either emanate in the UK, or are destined for the UK. Of those 21, only 4 display a route (that's 19%, again nowhere near 98%)
I am aware that you say that you cannot guarantee route resolution for all countries (you have specified Europe in previous posts), but considering that Radarbox is available worldwide, maybe a higher percentage would be desirable?
DC
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Did you have the network on as well?
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Yes.
DC
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Hi Deadcalm,
The bug is "If an aircraft is on the network first it will show no route and once its transfers to local flights if will continue to show no route"
If you switch off the network and restart RB with the network off you should see 99% of the UK routes. Have a go and trying this.
We are aware of the bug and we need to force the network to look up using the online database and a software update to check local database once its transfers to local picked up flights.
I think I am right in saying our developer is in contact with you and hopefully soon you should have beta with that software update.
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Cheers for that AirNav Support, thought it was me going mad, turning off Network and then restarting RB is now showing a lot more flight routes than it was before turning network off.
Is there going to be a release to resolve this problem permanently?
Daz
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Yes there will be release. We have said that a few times but I guess some people don't believe it :)
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No probs, being a Newbie RB User, not been on the forum that long, so may have missed any previous messages regarding Patches/Releases.
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Airnav, I accept that there is SOME improvement (I was already aware of, and have used this workaround), but again nowhere near the percentages you quote. I will await the new beta version with a fix for this problem, with interest.
DC
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Deadcalm,
I am sure we compare percentages all day with your self :)
But proof is in the pudding as they say. The RadarBox in london is running the same version as yours except the network is on and view on that shows nearly all the flights with routes.
http://www.akzah.com/blog/static.php?page=radarboxLondon
The routes which are not appearing are ones which are inter Europe (not going through UK airspace) or ones with unsual route mappings such as Thomas Cook flights.
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The routes which are not appearing are ones which are inter Europe (not going through UK airspace) or ones with unsual route mappings such as Thomas Cook flights.
Hi Support,
I'd be interested to know what qualifies Thomas Cook flights as 'unusual route mappings'. As you're no doubt aware I've posted a fairly comprehensive list of TCX flight ID's and would be interested to know the technical problems they cause. Their flight ID's match exactly the flight no's they use for passengers so from on outsiders perspective they look like straightforward look-ups. An insight into the technical problems they cause may help me with decoding some of the other airlines we are currently missing.
Cheers.
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Good question tesmonkey.
This is for the route online database company to answer :)
I suspect (don't quote us on this) that there is usually a lookup table from the IDs that have routes that passengers see and the ones that the ATC have and they might not have them. Having said that some TCX flights do appear.
The whole routes database in itself is a large project and its best we let them deal with it and we are fowarding any issues we note.
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Well I know of at least one online routes look-up service that took a copy of my TCX list to add to their data so I can assume it's not them that you're using :)
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"But proof is in the pudding as they say" Not in MY pudding, it's not...
Firstly, the area covered in your site is a fraction of the size of mine, with (when I looked) only 17 aircraft on view - hardly a comparison.
Secondly, you appear to have missed the point that not all RadarBox users are going to be based in London, and will be interested in routes pertaining to flights in THEIR territory.
Thirdly the comment about routes being "Inter Europe" and not going through UK airspace is nonsense. The aircraft I am particularly interested (as I have already mentioned) certainly DO fly through UK airspace. It also fails to explain why many of those foreign "Inter Europe" flights DO display a route (Like Veuling, CSA, Transavia, etc.). It's just inconsistent.
And lastly, in what way do Thomas Cook flights have "unusual" flight mappings? And does this also apply to Thompson, Easyjet, Ryanair, etc.?
It's good to indulge in healthy discussion, but please refrain from making generalised statements which are wide open to examination. We all know that the product is good, but please accept is isn't yet all things to all users and those of us who have a point to make do so in expectation of improvement. There is no need to be so defensive.
DC
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We weren't being defensive though we found it interesting you knew about the bug but uploaded the picture with the network just to create maximum impact.
We have acknowledged the issue in about half dozens topics on routes so far and explained our source data before but we will explain it again:
1.) Our source has details of Flightplans in Europe (however only UK airspace is fully correct) the other areas might be incorrect or missing hence we only mention UK airspace but its possible you get other routes as well.
2.) We have never set out to create a online route database which is going to cover the world. Why? Because its a massive and expensive task in itself. The routes are always changing so we cannot use static data, we need an actual live feed either from the airlines or a specific ATC centre. As you can imagine with that in mind we are now stepping into Professional Customer territory here and cost. Instead we have chosen to do our best in getting as many routes as possible and using this source which is expanding.
3.) Flight Mappings are example EZY123 might be listed as EGLL to EGKK and that is the flight plan data that our source has but the Flight ID over ADS-B is EZY123Y. Hence we need a mapping before we look up in the online source to change from 123 to 123Y (easy example some are complex). Most of the EZY and RYN flights should be shown as they have these setup. Unfournately airlines have a habit of changing these mappings and they are not always static causing extra pain. Some online databases convert the mapping anyway and we are hoping they can do this for us rather than us getting involved in this.
Overall you must understand that if you want 100% routes across the world then the system at the moment does not exist even for a Professional.
Hope that gives you a better insight, we our selves use RB and would love to have all the information as like a real Flight Dispatcher but we also know the issues around it all.
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3.) Flight Mappings are example EZY123 might be listed as EGLL to EGKK and that is the flight plan data that our source has but the Flight ID over ADS-B is EZY123Y. Hence we need a mapping before we look up in the online source to change from 123 to 123Y (easy example some are complex).
That's not a good example. Airlines use alphanumeric callsigns when Eurocontrol have advised them that the numeric callsign (i.e. timetable flight number) ould potentially cause confusion with other scheduled flights in the same area at the same time. The scope for confusion is minimised by substituting alpha characters for one or more of the digits of the original flight number.
Simply adding a letter to the end of a flight number, as in your example, isn't how it's normally done in my experience, as that would only partially resolve the potential for confusion between, say, EZY123Y and AFR123.
HTH
Dave
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Apologies my example was poor, Thanks Dave.
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Just to show the pudding again :)
Glyns setup is showing most Central and South UK.
http://www.glyn.tzo.net/
Akbars is more zoomed in on the London region
http://www.akzah.com/blog/static.php?page=radarboxLondon
Both are showing without the network at the moment and using the online routes (Glyn may have added extra routes) but the routes are showing for 90%+
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Overall you must understand that if you want 100% routes across the world then the system at the moment does not exist even for a Professional.
My advise to anyone that wants near 100% routes is to use Planeplotter and FD6. I run this setup 24x7, and get 100% route lookup. FD6 uses three sources for it's routes - Flytcom, Flightstats, and FlightAware.
Sure, once a day you have to import the new/changed routes in ANRB, so any route changes are always a day late. But having run this setup for months now, I only get around 10-20 new/changed routes each day anyway. In my routes database, I now have over 2,700 routes that have been added or changed using this process.
See http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=551.msg4199#msg4199 for details on how to do this.
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Just to show the pudding again :)
Glyns setup is showing most Central and South UK.
http://www.glyn.tzo.net/
Both are showing without the network at the moment and using the online routes (Glyn may have added extra routes) but the routes are showing for 90%+
Just to clarify I never have Network flights showing as I am only interested in aircraft that I can 'see'.
I have not added any extra routes nor modified my databse in any way, shape or form.
I still have the joys of that all to come! :-)
Regards,
-=Glyn=-