AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: AirNav Development on August 19, 2008, 10:06:00 PM
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We are happy to announce that we have just finished a change in our flight data server to enable alphanumerical callsigns to be properly decoded.
So from now on callsigns like EZY67HP will have their origin/destination retrieved from our server.
This is another feature requested by users and immediately developed by AirNav Systems.
Hope you enjoy it.
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That's excellent news - well done in getting this working!!
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Yes, that seems to be working - note the last 2 autopopulated routes :-)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3193/2778866787_0bd6614bde.jpg)
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Hello, Airnav. A leap in the right direction - thanks.
However, how consistent is this change? I only ask because, again, the majority don't show the route, including current Easyjet flights on screen at the moment:
EZY605F, EZY271L, and TCX535K, TCX269K, etc., etc...
DC
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Give it time to autopopulate DC - it doesn't all happen at once.
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Not sure which providers Airnav are now using for routes, but this might help explain some of the problems with dealing with alphanumeric callsigns (it's a statement by the author of FD6 that I forwarded on to Airnav last month):
"For info FlightAware does not carry Ryanair, Easyjet or the other non-US low cost carriers. FS & FC do carry most low cost carriers but FS will only accept FlightIDs where the flight number part of the code is numerical so FS will return a route for EZY6521 but it will not return a route for EZY37FN as 37FN is not numeric. FC will accept both EZY6521 & EZY37FN so depending on the lookup site and the format of the flightID you may or may not get a match."
From what I've seen Airnav are doing everything they can to get this working reliably for the myriad of callsign formats, and are now making significant progress.
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Amongst other routes, I've got the following low-cost carrier routes autopopulated today:
EZY80FX EGGD EGPE
TCX104P EGKK EGCC
EZY18LM EGKK EGPH
RYN81LN EGGW EIKN
This is after a quick look at the routes table in Database Explorer, so it does look like they are being populated.
64 routes populated so far this morning :-)
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They are being popuplated, but please remember sometimes our source data does not have all the flights. There isn't a magical database out there with all of them so some will be missing :) But this is the closest we can get at the moment.
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This an excelent improvement for ANRB2009 however I would like to know if I can manually update flight codes.
I was using 1.5v with many routes manually updated, however due to a personal decision I decided to fully install the new ANRB version instead of the update because it gave me problems.
The new fully version works fine but after I looked the new route database I checked that many flights I had in my old one are missing.
I have a backup of my 1.5v data If you wish, under your instructions I can provide it for you to pick up missing flights.
These update flights were essencially from low costs and charters with origin/destination from Portugal and Spain and some cruise levels for North Africa an North/South America.
Brgds
CA
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Hi AirNav,
On a slightly different tack with route information. I note that the drop down lists available to select from or to airports for data use IATA 3 lettercodes but the data that is in the aircraft list and on the maps uses the ICAO 4 letter codes.
Would it be possible to have a choice as to whether IATA or ICAO codes are displayed in the list and on the maps.
Regards
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CarlosAbreu,
Contact support direct and we will see whether we can put those routes on the server. However as they won't be updated we probably need to look for a better start source.
You can update the route table if you like, the only difference now is that it has a date time stamp, if this is older than a month in then tries to get the route data again if is available.
Roadrunner,
Suggestion noted, although the drop down filter list can take both 3 and 4 code when entered manually.
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You can update the route table if you like, the only difference now is that it has a date time stamp, if this is older than a month in then tries to get the route data again if is available.
Can you please confirm how it handles all the routes that have NULL in the CH (date/timestamp) field. Do these expire immediately?
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Yes, however expire is not a nice word.
They don't get removed from the database unless there is route in the online database.
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I have already contact Airnav Support and now waiting for a reply, however I would like to know if I must introduce a date value in the field CH on the manual updates.
Brgds
CA
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I have already contact Airnav Support and now waiting for a reply, however I would like to know if I must introduce a date value in the field CH on the manual updates.
Yes, I'd be interested in the "official" answer to this as well. In the meantime, I've been using a date/timestamp (today) of "20080821000000".
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Suggestion noted, although the drop down filter list can take both 3 and 4 code when entered manually.
AirNav, thansk for that. I had noted you can see either sets of codes but this option is not available for the route data on map or in list and 3 characters take up less space than 4 :-)
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Its best to add a time stamp of today or whenever you add it otherwise it will be always be checking your manually entry against the online database.
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Why is it when I am not connected to the network, MyFlights only, I have 100% Route look up, but when I connect to the network aswell none of or very little of the route info appears, and I certainly dont get a full list on network route look ups ( im using latest version RB2009 )
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The network look ups are not done on your computer. They are done via the server.
Otherwise you can imagine if everyone loggs on to the network and its has 1,000 flights it will be looking up that many each download on your pc which is not sensible.
The server should have all the network route info as well as soon. This require a change on the server and not on your software.
Hope that explains it.
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I understand about the Network lookups and the server, but when Im not connected to the network each local flight I pick up that has a callsign immediatly picks up its route info, but If am connected to the network aswell, eventually all my local flights with callsigns showing wont show or pick up the route info.
At the moment I am not connected to the network and each callsign / flight has its route showing.
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I understand now, thats been mentioned before that if a network flight which does not have a route due to server comes into your local flights it stays with no lookup.
This will work once the lookup works for the network flights in the first place.
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Adding o what our support mentioned, we are working on our server to add this and other features: we are processing now more than 10 million msgs/day on our server so it has to be a very robust and reliable job. In 2 weeks we believe this will be finished.
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Adding o what our support mentioned, we are working on our server to add this and other features: we are processing now more than 10 million msgs/day on our server so it has to be a very robust and reliable job. In 2 weeks we believe this will be finished.
Excellent news!
Will this network flight route information get added to my local route table as each one is populated? The reason I ask is that I have RB connected to my laptop and often take it with me to other locations in the country. I use the network data as a way of populating my aircraft table with planes that normally wouldn't appear overhead my local location so that they are still identified offline when out and about. It would be great if the network route information got added to my local route table so that when I'm out and about offline I'll still get the route info for flights that I wouldn't normally pick up at my home location.
If network routes don't currently get added / updated to the local route table could I suggest it as a future enhancement?
Keep up the good work.
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Testmonkey,
Take a look at the Routes table in RB Database Explorer on your Internet connected PC. You will see all the new routes that have been added at the bottom of the list - note the date added (the routes that came with RB don't have dates, so any with dates have been autopopulated). I'm getting 70 or 80 added a day now. The file you are looking at in Database Explorer is the main data source NavData.db3. If you copy this file to your non-Internet PC, then you will have all the autopopulated routes and aircraft than were added to the PC connected to the Internet.
The other database that RB populates is MyLog.db3 - this only contains live traffic you have detected via your antenna. I was copying this to a USB memory stick and tranferring it between PC's too, but I gave up in the end as I wasn't disciplined enough to make sure I was always using the "current" MyLog.db3. Now, I just copy the NavData.db3 from my mian PC to the laptop every now and then.
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Will this network flight route information get added to my local route table as each one is populated?
I don't think so. I think only routes from local flights get added to the routes table in the Navdata database. Routes from Network flights don't get saved in the routes table. Maybe Airnav Support can confirm this.
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Hi to all
Sorry to come back again with this question but I still introducing manuallly a lot of flights and I don't know if I must insert data values on CH field.
There's a lot of incomplete flight information, for ex IB flights for North/South America came all from LEBL via LEMD and they only appear for ex as LEBL-LEMD or LEMD-SAEZ.
If all member could edit as the flights as I'm doing and share them in the network was a big step to help ANRB. In fact we are a team.
By other way I have check that alphanumeric flights rarely are in the display route but they are in database.
This happens normally with SN, IB and LH flights. These flgiht codes were introduced by myself in my database.
Airnav support, please advise in order to I do it correctly.
Brgds
CA
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For the earlier posts the network routes are not saved down as otherwise each if you would be saving down 1,000s of routes each time you connected to the network which is not a good idea.
CarlosAbreu,
You can do a couple of things if you want share data, firstly its best to have datetime value in there of today. If you have SQL knowledge you can create a script of the updates you make which you can pass around.
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As an example, here's the routes I added this morning for all the flights yesterday in north Scotland (as seen in Planeplotter). They're in the form of SQL INSERT statements, and were generated using SQLite Maestro (http://www.sqlmaestro.com/products/sqlite/maestro/).
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Thanks for prompt reply Airnav Support
I will introduce today's datetime value for all manually update flights.
Unfortunelty I don't have SQL knowledge.
Brgs
CA
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For the earlier posts the network routes are not saved down as otherwise each if you would be saving down 1,000s of routes each time you connected to the network which is not a good idea.
I'm not asking about the capability of 'downloading' the routes for network traffic. As you say this would involve 1000's of requests coming in from users which would not be a good idea!
What I'm referring to is a change to the RB local software that would use the information that has already been populated (and downloaded) for network traffic and add this to the local routes table.
Presently if you click on an aircraft in the network list the software will request an update from the server if you don't have it in your aircraft table or you don't have a photo of it. What I'd like to request is an addition whereby if you click on an aircraft in the network flights list and the flight route is already populated for it that information is checked in the local routes table and if necessary added to that table - no server request involved, purely a local process. There would be local processor overhead involved but it could be a user selectable option.
Maybe I'm getting confused with regard to route information that displays for network flights. Is it actually the case that all of the routes I can see are already actually in my local routes table? I was under the impression that this information was added at AirNav's end (therefore only one request per flight) or included in the upload from the user and then included in the feed that we see.
Testmonkey,
Take a look at the Routes table in RB Database Explorer.......... just copy the NavData.db3 from my mian PC to the laptop every now and then.
Hi Allocator
My message probably wasn't very clear! I only use the laptop so no need to transfer the db's around. I just wanted to capture routes that don't normally overfly me so I would have that info when on the road (or abroad) in the locality where they do fly.
Cheers
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Can anyone help me to clarify this:
I have at this moment LAN705 on my antena, this flight is EDDF-LEMD-SCEL, however in database the flight is show only as EDDF-LEMD.
I have manually corrected twice the flight to the correct routing and restarted ANRB, but always I do it the flight becames again to EDDF-LEMD...(?)
How can I bypass this problem ? There's any chance of ANRB checked first our personal database to see if flight is valid and only before checked the server ?
I don't want to be borrow but I have a lot of flights that are not with the correct call sign when they cross Portugal.
Please advise.
Brgds
CA
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On your manual entry in the database, have you included a date/time stamp for the route - in the field CN.
Like this:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/2789103082_b926bdd719_o.jpg)
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Hi Tarbat
Yes, I'm doing it for all new entries as you have in your printscreen, I'm using the following format: 20080823000000.
The only difference is that when I edit a flight, I don't change date value in the CH field, I just edit the NO, ND or NV field.
One doubt at this moment: must I change the CH field when I edit the other data ?
There must be a way to solve this, I'm feeling frustrated, I made many corrections (specially the IB flights), I backup my Data folder and restart ANRB, when I looked to again to it, corrections that have flights on the air became to original wrong route (?).
What I'm missing ?
I appreciate any help.
Brgds
CA
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One doubt at this moment: must I change the CH field when I edit the other data ?
Hi Carlos
Yes you should also change the CH field or else the flight number will be looked up on the server again. If you recheck this flight number in the database you will probably find one of two things;
1. The route is shown as NO=EDDF and ND=LEMD with a value set for CH.
2. The route is shown as NO=EDDF and ND=LEMD with no value set for CH.
If it's like 1 above then the route information on AirNav's server is wrong and has overwritten your change. If it's like 2 above your change hasn't been saved to the database. I know myself and others did find instances on v1.5 where changes we made in the database explorer weren't being saved. Maybe the same problem still exists in v2.0 although I can't confirm as I now use external software for all my database editing.
Try changing your flight information again to NO=EDDF, ND=SCEL, NV=LEMD and CH=20080823010000 and let us know how you get on.
Cheers
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Hi Testmonkey
Thanks for your post, the situation you report is the same that happens to me.
I restarted ANRB check again LAN704 and LAN705 and changes I made in field NV are now correct
However I'm going to wait for next server update to check again and confirm that there isn't a change.
I was using in CH the format YEAR-MONTH-DAY-000000, for the next manual updates I will use your sugestion: YAER-MONTH-DAY-010000.
I'll keep you informed of the situation.
Brgds
CA
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Hi Testmonkey
Here goes the firts onde detected !!!
This late night I introduced the flight MMZ6652 MUHA-LPPR-LPPT with CH datavalue 20080823000000.
At this precise moment this flight appears as MMZ6652 LPPR-LPPT, the server overwrite my entry values.
I changed it gain but at this time with CH value 200808230100000.
This is main problem, I manually introduce the correct flight route code and the server in the next check change my values.
I don't know how to solve this problem.
Brgds
CA
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No way !!!
The server automatically changed it again for MMZ6652 LPPR-LPPT.
I manually update it again but with a diferent CH value: 200808133000 (LIS local time).
I don't know the efective result because the flight is no more on my interface, probably it has already landed.
Brgds
CA
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CA, when the server overwrite the entry, does it put a new CH value in?
And when you change an entry, do you move to another record to ensure the change is committed?
I also use external softeare (SQLite Maestro) to make all my database updates.
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Hi Tarbat
Yes it does.
When I change an entry I proceed in accordance with save settings moving to another field in the same record.
Sometimes I moved it to another record, must always I do it this way instead of a field in the same record ?
I always check if data became recorded eihter I move to another field or record.
Brgds
CA
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I manually update it again but with a diferent CH value: 200808133000 (LIS local time).
Your date/timestamp looks strange. That looks like year=2008, month=08, day=13, hour=30, min=00. Try 20080823010000. And make sure you move to a different record to commit the update.
Other than that, I'm out of ideas. We probably need Airnav to confirm how route updates from their server should work. Maybe if you update a route whilst the aircraft on that route is still in the MyFlights list that causes a problem, but I really don't know.
I add/update around 150 routes each day, and I've not seen this problem. But I update using SQLite Maestro, with ANRB shut-down, rather than the Database Explorer.
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We are investigating this issue on our server. We had problems in the past with multi-leg flights returning only 1 of the legs but it has been corrected. Maybe not completely.
The only way to force the application to download again the correct route for a specific flight number is by deleting its entry on by deleting the date entry.
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Thanks Airnav. I think CarlosAbreu's question is "how does he force ANRB to NOT download the route?"
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Unfortunately there is no option to do so. Anyway suggestion added to next version.
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Hi Tarbat
You're quite right I had a typing error in my post, I'm using the same format you are for today's update entries: 20080823010000.
Sr member
Thanks for information, I will try to delete the date on CH field in order to server update flight correctly, otherwise I will always have a lot of incomplete flight information.
I would like to clarify that I don't have any problems in a server route update, for me it's the best way to work with, however the main problem is how to keep the correct flight information.
We must discover a procedure that after a manually route updated data prevents server to rechange the information again.
A kind of local validation process, whatever...
Please advise.
Brgds
CA
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AirNav Development
Sorry to come back again but this situation is getting me crazy, I still have a lot of flights that aren't correctly updated or by other way they don't display the route information in my interface when they are picked up by my Wimo antena (they are introduced in database).
This night I introduced manually a lot of new flights, I used CH field description 20080824000000.
Due to the problems reported on this topic, in your opinion, until this situation is solved, is this the correct way to do it or it's better to leave CH field blank ?
As we can't stop the auto update, what's the best option to prevent the permanent change of correct flight information by the server.
Many thanks in advance and brgds
CA
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Carlos, until Dev / Support get back to you here's what I'd recommend.
DO fill in the CH field. If you don't the server will look to update your changes as soon as the flight is seen.
Use an external editor to make your changes. There are a few SQLite editors to choose from. Shut down RB and back up your NavData database before editing.
Create a new table to keep a copy of the changes you've made or store them in a csv file. Once a month you can change the CH values in this table or file to that days date and then re-import them into the routes table. By doing this your changes will not get updated again for a month from that date.
If you don't know SQL just ask and I'll provide you with the SQL statements and instructions you need to do the above.
Cheers
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Hi testmonkey
The server always changes the manual updates, all of them have data value in the CH field (ex for this night updates: 20080824000000).
I'm very gratefull for your help but before I begin to deal with SQL I would like to know the reply from ANRB Development, I'm sure they will find a way to help users with this problem ASAP.
Brgds
CA
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Carlos, as explained in our previous email routes are automatically updated from our servers and there is (on this version) a way of stopping it. The only way to avoid for now is to not to allow RadarBox to access the internet.
We have added this issue to our to-do list. It is related to a problem is the retrieval of multi-leg flights from our server. We get this information from a professional airline based service and they are sending us data with some errors so we are still waiting for their answer.
In the meanwhile let me add that less than 1% of the flights are multi-leg and this problem happen to maybe 1 in 50 multi leg flights received. In other words it will happen 2 times in each 10 thousand flights received which clearly does not represent a major bug.
We are doing our best to have it corrected ASAP.
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Hi Sr.Member
Thank you very much for your reply, I don't want to be misunderstanding, my posts didn't have intention to be a complain, please understand tehm as a relief after so many missing work hours consider them as sharing report in order to help ANRB solve a problem, nothing more.
I will never turn off the network, I know this situation is pontual and the sharing of flight data is the future of flight tracking and a big improvement for ANRB.
Brgds
CA