AirNav Systems Forum

AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: thechipman0 on January 21, 2021, 06:35:30 PM

Title: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 21, 2021, 06:35:30 PM
I have been running my radarbox micro on raspi for about 2 weeks now. After the initial set up it ran online but was not sending any ├Čnfo to rb, after a lot of help from you guys I eventually got it to work. The coverage was bad at 61nm so the other day decided to put antenna on roof, this actually never increased coverage?? but then realised that although online again not sending any info. Now suddenly it has gone offline and it seems no matter what I try it won't go back online. I know that I'm not the best person with technology but I just don't know where to go from here. I'm running rpi buster my station is EXTRPI020882  ps I have tried most fixes in forums but keep seeing different methods so not sure if I'm making it harder to fix or what. All I want is a complete installation rundown with instructions on deleting what I have already done. A lot to ask I know but I'm getting desperate now.
Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 21, 2021, 06:56:52 PM
Hve you tried following this guide https://www.radarbox.com/raspberry-pi/guide

I suggest you copy and paste instead of typing as it is very easy for mistakes to creep in

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 21, 2021, 07:16:40 PM
Hi thanks, I have done this at least 5 times today with no luck. I have a photo copy so I know that I am inputing correctly. It is a we bit confusing with different instructions ie 2a 2b 2c 2d etc etc I cant work out what abcd to use. It says rtl dongle or rb software but don't mention the actual rbmicro so never know if I'm doing it right.
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: markr468 on January 21, 2021, 08:27:15 PM
You are online and sending data right now. Checking around, there are not a lot of aircraft in the air around you.

1) What is the output of the following command?

Code: [Select]
sudo systemctl status rbfeeder
2) Are you using the original antenna and cable that came with the Micro RadarBox?
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 21, 2021, 09:19:52 PM
Steve

RTL dongle and microradarbox are one and the same thing
As Mark advised you are now online and showing aircraft so it looks like you have worked it out, well done

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 21, 2021, 09:26:36 PM
Thanks everyone for help and suggestions, I think I have cure it. My sharing key has os capital Os and 0 zeros was just a matter of working out which was which. I don't think they should put letters or zeros in the key as it can get very confusing.
Thanks again
Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 21, 2021, 09:28:50 PM
Well done Steve as I stated cut and paste, dont type, but you got there through perseverence.

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: abcd567 on January 23, 2021, 08:25:28 PM
There are lot of flights within 200nm from your location, but your station receives only very few.

Which antenna are you using, the whip supplied with "Micro RadarBox"?
You need to use a better antenna, place it on the roof, and use a good (low loss) coax between antenna and Dongle (MicroRadarBox).


(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0799/1637/products/MicroRadarBox_Front_large.jpg?v=1486071937)

Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 23, 2021, 08:30:14 PM
He uses a home made antenna

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: abcd567 on January 23, 2021, 08:52:09 PM
He uses a home made antenna

Alan

Which one? Home made antennas often perform poor, particularly the CoCo (coaxial collinear) if made by a hobbyist inexperienced in antenna making.

There are some antennas which perforform good even when made by an inexperienced hobbyist. These are all variants of the "1/4 wavelength with ground plane" .

Please brows this thread:
3 EASY DIY ANTENNAS FOR BEGINNERS (https://forum.radarbox24.com/index.php?topic=9131.msg134111#msg134111)


Try these

(1) Cantenna (https://forum.radarbox24.com/index.php?topic=9131.msg134151#msg134151)

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8754/16584897830_8fbda73e7f.jpg)(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/14352735456_8de48afcfc_z.jpg)



(2) Handy Spider (aka Quick Spider) (https://forum.radarbox24.com/index.php?topic=9131.msg134171#msg134171)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5628/30381704152_64fb5f78ed_z.jpg)
.
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 24, 2021, 11:44:31 AM
Thanks for the comments regarding antenna, yes it is a homemade coco, perhaps I should just bite the bullet and buy one. It is on my roof but obviously not made well enough.
Cheers guys
Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: abcd567 on January 24, 2021, 08:58:06 PM
Thanks for the comments regarding antenna, yes it is a homemade coco, perhaps I should just bite the bullet and buy one. It is on my roof but obviously not made well enough.
Cheers guys
Steve

Coco is easy to make, but hard to get right.

Before you go ahead with purchasing a commercial antenna Like AirNav, or JetVision, or Flightaware, just make a Handy Spider (aka Quick Spider). It is easy to make and  does not require any connector except a F-male and a pigtail F-female to mcx to connect to MicroRadarBox Dongle. It can be build by ONE meter of RG6 or similar coax, no soldering required.

Replace your Coco by Handy/Quick Spider, and you will see substantial improvement. When you get your commercial antenna, you will get further improvement over Handy/Quick Spider.

Alternatively you can make Cantenna, which is also very easy, and will prove better than your Coco which is obviously not good.


Handy Spider:
https://forum.radarbox24.com/index.php?topic=9131.msg134171#msg134171

Cantenna:  https://forum.radarbox24.com/index.php?topic=9131.msg134151#msg134151

.
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 25, 2021, 10:32:24 AM
Thank for that, I will make one today and see how it goes. I do have a radarbox one on order but I can always send it back if one of these work. Would they be okay in the loft?
Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 28, 2021, 05:01:42 PM
Update
Well I made the easy spider and I was amazed at the difference, I went from 61nm to 237nm amazing. Although my areal is situated outside on the roof i was not getting many aircraft below 4200ft at Heathrow and 200ft at Gatwick shame as i was hoping to see to ground. I had a Radarbox areal already on order so whe it arrived I thought put it up and see what happens. Well I lost total cover eventually going offline, I cant see that it would make me go offline but something did. Complete reinstall of operating system  and reinstall of RB has solved the problem, but my coverage is the same but not seeing so many aircraft. I think its time to just leave it alone and let it run.
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 28, 2021, 05:21:54 PM
You are showing decent coverage,dont know which antenna that was with though ans have no idea what would result on you going offline

Given you are at Ramsgate about 80 miles away from Gatwick and 100 miles to Gatwick I cant say I am surprised you cant see aircraft on the ground at either airport.  ADSB works with line of sight so if you cant see the airport neither can the antenna and with the horizon at around 30 miles at ground level the antenna wont be able to see aircraft on the ground at either airport

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 28, 2021, 05:27:52 PM
Ahhhh that be why then thanks Alan
ps on rb antenna

Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 28, 2021, 06:27:28 PM
Only picking up a fraction of the aircraft that is in my coverage???????
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 28, 2021, 06:56:06 PM
I dont know the topograhy around you that could stop the signal reaching the antenna.  as I stated earlier if the antenna cant see the aircraft it cant show it

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 29, 2021, 11:58:18 AM
Have you considered you may need a filter due interference from telephone masts

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 29, 2021, 02:20:54 PM
Hi Alan, There are no phone masts withing 800 mtr of me so I cant see that that is the problem, as for the filter I'm not sure, the coax is the one that came with the antenna it is a single length so no joins and is about 5 mtr long. when I made the homemade spider it covered the same distance and picked up many more times aircraft than this one up to 200nm. This one only seem to pick up aircraft within about 20nm it is also about 5ft higher than the spider was. Either I have done something wrong in the set up or this areal is pants and I should go back to the homemade spider. You would of thought that the official Radarbox areal would of been the best.

Steve

Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 29, 2021, 02:28:41 PM
Its the same antenna that goes with the xrange etc and they get 250 miles or so.  Can you post a photo of it in position.  You are getting a lot more than 20 miles as you have G-WACW at 2,000ft approaching Sevenoaks at this time, BAW9171 over Woking at FL80, SHT3V at 4275ft over Fulham and RYR3D around Cambral in France.  I agree though that what you are getting should be better especially to the east

Inteference from phone mast result in reduced range etc and its usual to see this in urban areas however if the home made one is getting 200 miles compared to what you are seeing now that cant be the issue.  Filters reduce that interference and the coax has nothing to do with it.

Try the home made one again and see its results

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 29, 2021, 04:00:57 PM
will do Alan, probably be in a few days time now weather permitting. Will update when done.

Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 29, 2021, 04:04:03 PM
Can you post a photo of the antenna as it is now in location

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: abcd567 on January 30, 2021, 07:04:36 AM
The Maximum Range achievable at any location depends on
(1) Curvature of earth
(2) The  terrain around that location. Terrain plays a very important role as hills & changes in ground level will restrict maximum range.

This is due to the fact that propagation of radio waves in GHz/Microwave range is line of sight. The range is therefore limited by curvature of earth, and is about 250 nautical miles / 450 km for an ideal condition of perfectly level terrain. Hills &  rise in ground levels further restrict maximum range to less than 250 nautical miles / 450 km.


It is very easy to determine the maximum range attainable at any location based on terrain around it by the method given in this thread:

What is the Maximum Range I can Get?  (https://forum.radarbox24.com/index.php?topic=9251.0)


.
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 30, 2021, 12:10:00 PM
Hi thanks for that. I am aware of this but, when I use a homemade spider and pick up most of the aircraft in the shown coverage area, then change this spider for a proper radarbox antenna my coverage stays the same yes I know why but I pick up maybe four or five aircraft when I would using the other antenna pick up 30plus. That's the bit I'm having the issues with.
Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 30, 2021, 12:16:46 PM
Can you post a shot of where your antenna is located Steve to let us see if we can offer any advice

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 30, 2021, 12:19:30 PM
Alan asked for some pictures. The antenna on the left of pic is the old coco that is now disconnected, the antenna on the right is the radarbox that I am having a problem with. That is also the position the homemade spider was aswell.
Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 30, 2021, 12:34:24 PM
Thanks Steve, how did you get up there?

I cant see any issues there, what length of cable comes with the antenna are there any joints in it?

Maybe you should consider contacting support for advice for your situation, maybe a replacement is required

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 30, 2021, 12:38:18 PM
Coax that came with it approximately 5mtr no joins.
Steve. As for getting up there, ladders and a lot of nervous sweat.

Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 30, 2021, 12:44:13 PM
Good job you have a head for hights Steve

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 30, 2021, 02:19:18 PM
Anyone tell me how I contact RB support regarding this dam antenna??
Thanks
Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on January 30, 2021, 02:24:36 PM
[email protected] or [email protected] both go to the same place

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 30, 2021, 02:30:02 PM
cheers alan
steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: abcd567 on January 30, 2021, 05:59:14 PM
.....when I use a homemade spider and pick up most of the aircraft in the shown coverage area.....

Can you please post photo of your home made Spider? Photo will be OK even if it is not mounted on mast but is disconnected and is in your room. I am just curious to see it's built.
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Hawkeye on January 30, 2021, 10:36:44 PM
"Thanks Steve, how did you get up there?"

Spider man? :-)
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: abcd567 on January 31, 2021, 12:58:27 PM
"Thanks Steve, how did you get up there?"

Spider man? :-)

LOL
Well if some one climbs to that odd place to install a Spider antenna, it is appropriate to call him "Spider Man".
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: anchorage 53 on January 31, 2021, 02:05:34 PM
I love it
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 31, 2021, 02:08:56 PM
LOL. I was in the building trade for 50 + years and spent a lot of time on roofs. I'm a bit old for it now but the skill does not go just the balance and strength. A long ladder a bit of sweat and fear and it was up. Now I may have to take it down again as I believe that the antenna is faulty. Watch this space. Ps I have a request of pic for the spider, I have put it in the bin but if I can dig it out I will take picture and post it.

Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on January 31, 2021, 02:33:22 PM
Just dug my spider out of the bin, I'm glad it was still there as I'm going to have to use it while RB sort a replacement.
This little spider took me about 20 mins to make, it gave me a coverage of 236nm. When checking with live radar it also gave me 98% aircraft in the coverage area, not bad. When the new antenna arrived I put it up immediately and thought itsgot to be better. Noooooo the area cover was the same but I could only pick up maybe half a dozen aircraft. So spider beat  official RB antenna hands down. Check for yourselves on my station now and you will see what I  mean. When I re erect the spider sometime during the week weather permitting I will let you know and you can compare. My station is EXTRPI020882. Anyway here is the requested spider pic.

Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: abcd567 on February 01, 2021, 12:53:14 AM
Thanks for the photo of Spider.
The 1/4 wavelength antenna with ground plane (Spider and Cantenna) have advantage that they are far less sensitive to dimensional errors and straightness of wires than the Collinear antennas. This makes them work good even when made by an inexperienced hobbyist. Collinear antennas (Coaxial collinear and wire collinear with coils & stubs) are very intolerant to dimensional errors and that makes it very hard to get them right.

A 1/4 wavelength ground plane antenna (Spider or Cantenna) is a very good and easy to make bench-mark antenna for use as reference to judge the performance of other antennas.

The Spider can be built either over a SO-239 connector as a base, or without any connector at all (like the Spider you have built). Both builds perform equally good. The one built on SO-239 connector is sturdier, while the connector-less type is good when you don't have the connector readily available.
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on February 01, 2021, 04:00:43 PM
Well guys I have now taken down the radarbox official antenna and replaced with the hurriedly made spider that I fished out of the bin. The result speaks for itself as you can see, yes I have lots of aircraft showing a little better than the half dozen using the other areal.

Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on February 01, 2021, 04:09:11 PM
Yes a lot better so something definately not right with the Airnav one, is a replacement on its way to you?

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on February 01, 2021, 04:14:29 PM
I have just emailed them for a replacement or refund but if they want me to send it back they need to send a prepaid return label or get the delivery driver to collect when he delivers the replacement.
Hopefully there won't be a problem.
Steve
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on February 01, 2021, 04:19:32 PM
I thought you had contacted them when the issue showed itself originally, hopefully there are no issues

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: thechipman0 on February 01, 2021, 04:39:28 PM
I did contact them they emailed me back to ask if I had bought it from them. I told them yes via amazon but they were the sellers, not heard anything back.
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: Runway 31 on February 01, 2021, 05:52:48 PM
No problem, I dont expect any issues

Alan
Title: Re: Rb & raspi why so difficult to get working
Post by: AirNav Support on February 01, 2021, 07:41:33 PM
Just to clarify our Amazon store is different to buying direct from us. Returns procedures you must follow the Amazon route for this so its all tracked via Amazon.

Going back to the original issue,  a faulty antenna is rare so we would also like to see what has caused this fault.