AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: AirNav Development on December 04, 2011, 03:01:15 AM
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In the process of improving RadarBox data quality we are developing some routines to detect in which runway a specific is landing/takeoff. These routines will be used to create a LNG/TKO history table that will later been used by the client application.
It will also be used to aumatically correct errors on the fnumber/origin/destination to automatically correct for database errors.
At this stage we would ask our users to try the routines below and check for errors.
Please note they are on beta stage at this time so errors are possible.
These routines use a very complex algorithm which could be improved.
Heathrow Arrivals:
http://www.airnavsystems.com/cgi-bin/anrb_sv/ANRBVarrivals.php?airporticao=EGLL
Note 1: just change the ICAO code of an airport to get data for that airport.
Note 2: we are still working on the departure runway script.
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I presume at this stage the routes are still under development and this only covers ADS-B flights in areas with good radarbox network coverage.
On the EGLL table we had this one for a BA maintenance/training flight
2011-12-03 22:24:26 EGLL27R BAW9271 A321 G-EUXI EGPH-EGKK 1450 400CEB 268 121 -704
On the KJFK table we had the following:
2011-12-04 03:02:53 KJFK31R VRD260 A320 N843VA KSFO-KLAS 1675 AB8CDA 301 147 -1088
VRD260 is a multi-sector route KSFO-KLAS-KJFK according to Flightaware
2011-12-04 01:15:25 KJFK22L EVA32 B77W B-16710 RCTP-KEWR 1850 8990D9 210 161 -768
this flight is actually RCTP-KJFK
2011-12-03 17:27:11 KJFK04R AAL95 B752 N177AN EGCC-KBOS 1925 A1333B 30 185 -384
This flight is actually LEMD-KJFK
2011-12-03 22:48:52 KJFK22L FDX9733 MD11 N584FE EDFH-TJSJ 1875 A78546 210 178 -576
This appears from flightaware to be a charter one off operating EDDF-KJFK-KHSV
On the EBBR table is the following:
2011-12-03 11:04:05 EBBR25R KAL255 B744 HL7467 RKTU-PANC 2675 71BC67 245 130 -832
This is a multi-sector flight with four 'via' airports RKTU-PANC-KDFW-KATL-KJFK-EBBR
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As for EDDV:
It would be a great idea to apply a small plausibility check filter, because RW 27C is for Airframes up to 7,5 tons MTOW only. No commercial airliner with will land on this runway, especially due to the fact, that it is only 780 metres long. Watch the EDDV fact site: http://www.hannover-airport.de/index.php?id=2060&L=1
Checking of DLH046
I have it as flight from EDDF to EDDV, in your list it is as flight from EDDM to EDDH, which is false. Landed on RW27C, which is false because was performed with a B735. But it did land on RW 27R, which is very close to RW 27C.
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WSe have further improved the script. It is now organized in Departures/Arrivals.
We already noticed there are errors with the routing indication and we will work on this tomorrow.
Please check it at (just change EGLL for any airport code):
http://www.airnavsystems.com/cgi-bin/anrb_sv/ANRBVArrivals.php?airporticao=EGLL
http://www.airnavsystems.com/cgi-bin/anrb_sv/ANRBVDepartures.php?airporticao=EGL
Waiting for your feedback.
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Very good - would it be possible to add a Local Time column at all?
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The problem with RW 27C und 27R at EDDV is still there.
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Having had a detailed look. It basically cannot diferentiate parallel runways and it seems a lucky dip which one it shows or even if it shows the correct flow direction (take offs showing on the 09s when they actually went with all the others off of the 27s). This will require a lot more work. At Heathrow the Departures script shows many doubles and at the moment one arrival (BAW337). I have also noted the occasional hex code confusion design limitation and many many many actual arrivals are just plain missing. In its current form it could only be considered a guide. It would require alot of further refinement/rewriting if it is ever to be considered as a full solution for a professional client.
2011-12-07 22:09:53 EGLL 27R BAW337 A320 G-TTOB LFPO-EGLL 1075 40095D 268 139 2880
2011-12-07 22:04:08 EGLL 27R EIN725 A320 EI-DVI EGLL-EICK 1900 4CA6C4 270 127 2368
2011-12-07 22:04:08 EGLL 27R EIN725 A320 EI-DVI EGLL-EICK 2250 4CA6C4 160 160 -832
2011-12-07 21:50:56 EGLL 27R AMC103 A320 9H-AEO EGLL-LMML 1050 4D2025 269 140 2944
2011-12-07 21:50:56 EGLL 27R AMC103 A320 9H-AEO EGLL-LMML 775 4D2025 311 131 -768
2011-12-07 21:49:41 EGLL 27R SHT8S A319 G-EUPD EGLL-EGPH 1575 400804 269 149 1344
2011-12-07 21:49:41 EGLL 27R SHT8S A319 G-EUPD EGLL-EGPH 2300 400804 242 147 -448
2011-12-07 21:48:47 EGLL 27R BEL2102 A319 OO-SSM EGLL-EBBR 250 44CE6D 269 142 2752
2011-12-07 21:48:47 EGLL 27R BEL2102 A319 OO-SSM EGLL-EBBR 3025 44CE6D 248 184 -896
2011-12-07 21:45:03 EGLL 27R DLH1FP A320 D-AIQU LIRQ-EDDM 200 3C6635 270 138 2240
2011-12-07 21:45:03 EGLL 27R DLH1FP A320 D-AIQU LIRQ-EDDM 3025 3C6635 230 154 -768
2011-12-07 21:40:20 EGLL 27R SHT12T A320 G-EUYI EGLL-EGNT 300 406250 269 139 3008
2011-12-07 21:40:20 EGLL 27R SHT12T A320 G-EUYI EGLL-EGNT 1880 406250 245 128 -704
2011-12-07 21:38:08 EGLL 27R SHT2W A320 G-EUUH 675 4009C5 269 138 3392
2011-12-07 21:38:08 EGLL 27R SHT2W A320 G-EUUH 3400 4009C5 231 157 -512
2011-12-07 21:28:35 EGLL 27R BMA9EV A321 G-MEDJ EGLL-EIDW 200 400A66 270 158 2048
2011-12-07 21:28:35 EGLL 27R BMA9EV A321 G-MEDJ EGLL-EIDW 2700 400A66 275 157 -1152
2011-12-07 21:17:46 EGLL 27R EIN179 A320 EI-EDS EGLL-EIDW 900 4CA770 270 145 3328
2011-12-07 21:17:46 EGLL 27R EIN179 A320 EI-EDS EGLL-EIDW 2650 4CA770 275 151 -768
2011-12-07 21:05:12 EGLL 27R DLH4U A319 D-AILR 600 3C6592 270 129 3136
2011-12-07 21:05:12 EGLL 27R DLH4U A319 D-AILR 3675 3C6592 256 163 -960
2011-12-07 20:55:09 EGLL 27R BAW19LX A319 G-EUPG ELLX-EGLL 475 400877 270 143 1600
2011-12-07 20:55:09 EGLL 27R BAW738 A319 G-EUPG EGLL-LSGG 3675 400877 225 198 -1344
2011-12-07 20:54:18 EGLL 27R SHT2R A319 G-EUPT EGLL-EGCC 450 4008B4 269 147 2496
2011-12-07 20:54:18 EGLL 27R SHT2R A319 G-EUPT EGLL-EGCC 3325 4008B4 230 146 -704
2011-12-07 20:50:40 EGLL 27R SAS812 B738 LN-RPR EGLL-ENGM 500 478353 271 162 2432
2011-12-07 20:50:40 EGLL 27R SAS812 B738 LN-RPR EGLL-ENGM 3875 478353 16 189 -1152
2011-12-07 20:48:45 EGLL 27R DLH3415 A319 G-DBCB EGLL-EDDK 425 400A7D 270 138 2688
2011-12-07 20:48:45 EGLL 27R DLH3415 A319 G-DBCB EGLL-EDDK 4090 400A7D 320 166 -512
2011-12-07 20:47:44 EGLL 27R SHT6U A320 G-EUYB 650 405A4A 268 146 2112
2011-12-07 20:47:44 EGLL 27R SHT6U A320 G-EUYB 2345 405A4A 229 155 -768
2011-12-07 20:44:20 EGLL 27R AZA209 A320 EI-DTA EGLL-LIRF 350 4CA759 270 147 2880
2011-12-07 20:44:20 EGLL 27R AZA209 A320 EI-DTA EGLL-LIRF 2175 4CA759 162 195 -1024
2011-12-07 20:43:08 EGLL 27R SHT18H A321 G-EUXK EGLL-EGPD 1725 4010DB 269 146 2048
2011-12-07 20:43:08 EGLL 27R SHT18H A321 G-EUXK EGLL-EGPD 2300 4010DB 154 174 -768
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Good to see -actually not good to see- , that the "false" runway problem doesn't exist for EDDV only. The departure seems to work better, due to the fact, that there only a few 27C where should be 27R. As ACW stated, a lot of working -ours have to be spend in the development of this new feature until it is really useful.
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We are working on all these items and improving the script.
ACW mentioned it was detecting a departure as an arrival but that it false: the problem is with the route indication which is incorrect. That was in fact a landing. We are implementing some algorithms to auto correct the routes based on LNG/TKO data.
Regarding the false runways: there is nothing we can about it since this false information comes from aircraft position shifts. Maybe we will have to hide the runway information (better not to show any than to show 1 error in 99 correct cases).
More news to come.
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A lot of changes were implemented on the algorithms today.
The database on these tables was deleted and we started from scratch, with the new routines, 30 mins ago.
Please try to check the tables for errors. Note that it is important that these routines work as autmatic Flight number/Origin/Destination retrieval will come from them (against several other sources). Objective is not to have wrong org/dst info on the databases.
One single problem: due to some aircraft IRS drift it is impossible to assure at 100% the landing/departing runway. Only option is to show this info with a remark.
Again tks for your help.
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Further development done on this script today. Please continue checking for errors and we will have alook and try to correct them.
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First: The number false RW27C entries has decreased dramatically. I hope this isn't just a coincidence.
Second: But now I can see several double entries in the departure table. Here are some examples:
2011-12-09 23:12:40 EDDV 27C BER653M B738 D-ABKK EDDV-EDDM 4425 3C496B 264 150 -704
2011-12-09 23:12:40 EDDV 27C BER653M B738 D-ABKK EDDV-EDDM 675 3C496B 273 155 2112
2011-12-09 20:35:36 EDDV 27C FHY256 A320 TC-FBR EDDV-LTBA 2600 4B9852 238 185 -384
2011-12-09 20:35:36 EDDV 27C FHY256 A320 TC-FBR EDDV-LTBA 3790 4B9852 270 132 1152
2011-12-09 19:06:54 EDDV 27L DLH061 B735 D-ABIE EDDV-EDDF 3875 3C4925 249 156 -384
2011-12-09 19:06:54 EDDV 27L DLH061 B735 D-ABIE EDDV-EDDF 4165 3C4925 271 153 2048
2011-12-09 18:39:17 EDDV 27L BER766Y A320 D-ABFA EDDV-LOWW 3000 3C48C1 164 197 -256
2011-12-09 18:39:17 EDDV 27L BER766Y A320 D-ABFA EDDV-LOWW 1815 3C48C1 271 138 1984
2011-12-09 18:34:59 EDDV 27L GWI3370 A319 D-AGWH EDDV-EGSS 1345 3C5EE8 223 118 -576
2011-12-09 18:34:59 EDDV 27L GWI3370 A319 D-AGWH EDDV-EGSS 2465 3C5EE8 271 133 1984
2011-12-09 17:44:02 EDDV 27L GWI31V A319 D-AGWI EDDV-LOWW 1950 3C5EE9 164 137 -832
2011-12-09 17:44:02 EDDV 27L GWI31V A319 D-AGWI EDDV-LOWW 740 3C5EE9 273 136 3136
2011-12-09 17:36:26 EDDV 27R THY9JK A320 TC-JPN EDDV-LTBA 1465 4BAA0E 270 124 3392
2011-12-09 17:36:26 EDDV 27R THY9JK A320 TC-JPN EDDV-LTBA 1575 4BAA0E 238 174 -1152
2011-12-09 14:25:18 EDDV 27L GWI3820 A319 D-AGWH EDDV-LIMC 3905 3C5EE8 348 197 -832
2011-12-09 14:25:18 EDDV 27L GWI3820 A319 D-AGWH EDDV-LIMC 860 3C5EE8 272 121 3136
2011-12-09 14:02:09 EDDV 27L DLH1KV A320 D-AIQK EDDV-EDDM 660 3C662B 272 122 3776
2011-12-09 14:02:09 EDDV 27L DLH1KV A320 D-AIQK EDDV-EDDM 4750 3C662B 263 145 -640
2011-12-09 13:58:44 EDDV 27L BER212L B737 D-AHXF EDDV-LOWW 3100 3C6306 164 195 -1088
2011-12-09 13:58:44 EDDV 27L BER212L B737 D-AHXF EDDV-LOWW 360 3C6306 272 139 3392
2011-12-09 13:39:09 EDDV 27L DLH057 A320 D-AIQF EDDV-EDDF 5000 3C6626 250 174 -320
2011-12-09 13:39:09 EDDV 27L DLH057 A320 D-AIQF EDDV-EDDF 2410 3C6626 272 126 2112
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Analyses from today morning:
Missed Departure: AB8320 (BER814Q) to Vienna (LOWW) took off from RW27L Airframe Details: D-AGES B737 3C5CB3
Missing RW of DLH8MA: It took off from RW27L
Wrong RW: SWR819 RJ1H HB-IXX EDDV-LSZH took off from RW27R not 27C
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Aer Lingus flight 818 which is Cork to Gatwick is shown to have landed instead at Biggin Hill-EGKB. Other websites confirm it did operate its normal routing to Gatwick.
EGKB - RadarBox Arrivals
2011/12/11 02:12:47 UTC
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Landing Time UTC Airport Runway Callsign Aircraft Reg Route Altitude HexCode Heading Speed VS
2011-12-10 21:21:18 EGKB 03 EIN818 A320 EI-DEG 1275 4CA215 258 119 -640
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Further confusing the issue, here is the EIN 818 departure from Cork. You will see that although the time is significantly different, the Altitude, Heading (surely Track??), Speed and VS are identical to the spurious Biggin Hill arrival shown above.
EICK - RadarBox Departures
2011/12/11 02:38:42 UTC
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Take-Off Time UTC Airport Runway Callsign Aircraft Reg Route Altitude HexCode Heading Speed VS
2011-12-10 20:49:34 EICK 17 RYR9XG B738 EI-DAG EICK-EGSS 1825 4CA1B8 222 160 -768
2011-12-10 20:23:56 EICK 17 EIN818 A320 EI-DEG 1275 4CA215 258 119 -640
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Copyright © 2011 AirNav Systems | All Rights Reserved
Further Cork has Runway 17/35 which these aircraft are said to have departed and a shorter 07/25.
The Heading (Track) of 222 degree and 258 degrees shown for these departures do not match up with a runway 17 departure and in the first case would be ploughing across the grass.
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The routing of DLH8MA should be EDDV-EDDF
2011-12-11 00:31:43 EDDV 27C BER3718 B738 D-ABBJ 2580 3C484A hasn't landed on RW27C, because it's way to big for this RW, but did land on RW27R.
By the way, I don't know any airframe in my area that is equipped with ADS-B and is able to land on RW27C. As mentioned before 750m long and maximum take off weight 7500kg. The actual routines are working better then the first ones, but still generating false RW 27C entries, where it should be RW 27R. Just thinking: If the integration former mentioned plausibility check is to complex/difficult, why not entirely wiping RW27C from the routines? Yes, this will generate false entries for airframes, that are really using RW27C, but this may result in an error rate of one or two per week or even per month instead of 5 to 6 by day.
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Ok. Seems EDDV is a good airport to spot errors on the script. We will use it to find problems and make further developments. Pls wait for more news.
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Hi,
Is there any more news on this?
It would be great to have this populating route information. In the future it would be fantastic if it could be enhanced to be able to create a log of where a particular aircraft actually went (so if a LHR flight was diverted to STN that would be noted).
Jon
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We are copying all this. At this time we are focused on other work inside AirNav Systems but once we will be back to this we will re-work / do the necessary corrections to the routines.
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Great - thanks for the update
Jon