AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: AirNav Development on October 01, 2009, 04:36:46 PM
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This thread intends to clarify some questions regarding the release of AirNav RadarBox Real-Time Network . AirNav Systems team was so focused on the technical side of V3.06 release that we would like to apologize for not explaining in detail some facts regarding to this release.
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1- Are there is any trials available for AirNav RadarBox Real-Time Network:
Affirm, we have just created them.
Follow this link to get a free trial for 7 days. Note that if you do not cancel it, you will be charged after those 7 days and your trial will automatically turn into a full subscription. This is exactly the way all our other applications work.
RadarBox Real-Time Network 7 days Trial:
http://www.airnavsystems.com/RadarBox/order.html
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2- Why there is a different pricing for Live:
As with any other software there is the need to create different values between different and better solutions. That's why Windows have a several version at different prices and is always Microsoft Windows. Unfortunately as with any other commercial service there is a lot of development going on behind the scenes and we cannot offer these solutions for free if our intention is, as it has always been, to constantly develop new solutions and improve our products.
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3- Does the subscription have any limitations?
Absolutely not. There are no time limitations and data is live, real-time.
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4- What if I don't want/need it?
Simply do not subscribe. All the previous options are still available. You can opt not to have network, to have a cheaper 5 minute delayed network or to have real-time network. It's up to you.
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5- Will it work with any software version?
No. To have the real-time network you will need AirNav RadarBox 3.06 (or later) installed.
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6- What is the default network when a user buys a brand new box?
By default, you'll still be on the delayed network.If you pay the real-time subscription, then you'll get the real-time network. The delayed 5 minute network is by default, activated for free for 1 year on any new box (just like before).
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Any more questions please ask on this thread or directly to our support at [email protected]
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Would it be possible to transfer an existing subscription to the delayed network into a live network subscription running for half the time?
That would be an attractive option to those that have already renewed before the live network option was known about.
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Would it be possible to transfer an existing subscription to the delayed network into a live network subscription running for half the time?
That would be an attractive option to those that have already renewed before the live network option was known about.
Yes. Just order the Live Network (and order should be places, not a trial) and contact our support. We will then refund the remaining part of your old delayed network subscription.
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Would it be possible to transfer an existing subscription to the delayed network into a live network subscription running for half the time?
That would be an attractive option to those that have already renewed before the live network option was known about.
Yes. Just order the Live Network (and order should be places, not a trial) and contact our support. We will then refund the remaining part of your old delayed network subscription.
Will that work if the subscription is part of the RB purchase rather than something explicitly paid for?
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The 1 year free of delayed network that comes with any RadarBox is maintained.
If you want to upgrade to the real-time network you can do so and in this case we will not be required to do anything because we cannot refund a free item. :-)
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replying to post #121,
If you are involved in that part of the hobby then yes, real-time would be useful, but at the moment I am content - even with the 5 min delay. I just wish that every single aircraft transmitted ADS-B so we could pick them up on RB.
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That's the reason why we are still keeping the delayed network available, for users like you.
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I've just subscribed to the 7 dau trial for live network data, however, I don't believe it has worked correctly, it still takes 30 seconds to refresh the data, I believe it should be 20 seconds with 'real time', also at the bottom of the screen it just says 'Network' instead of 'Real Time Network' as indicated it should in another thread on here.
My serial number is ANRB00004 should you need it.
Cheers
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Just a couple more questions on the pricing issue - If one has purchased an additional 12 months of "delayed" network access and one wants to upgrade, would it not be fairer to be expected to pay the difference between the two for the remaining time rather than start again with the additional real time fee?
And, if it's still not performing correctly (vis-a-vis the last post), how can you be charged at all? Surely one shouldn't really be charged until it's out of beta and a public release.
DC
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I've just subscribed to the 7 dau trial for live network data, however, I don't believe it has worked correctly, it still takes 30 seconds to refresh the data, I believe it should be 20 seconds with 'real time', also at the bottom of the screen it just says 'Network' instead of 'Real Time Network' as indicated it should in another thread on here.
My serial number is ANRB00004 should you need it.
Cheers
I think there was a further updated anrb.exe in the previous thread on this subject, that seemed to fix it for someone else.
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I have been very interested in the news of the "Real Time Network" release. I totally agree that the Beta version should be available to existing "delayed Network" subscribers free until the final version is available for general release. After all surely its in AirNav's interest to have as many users as possible testing the Software for FREE. Another point to consider here is that the Data distributed on the AirNav network originates from AirNav customers like you and me! All the monies invested by all of us on antenna's and the like provides even more Data for AirNav to charge us all for. This sounds to me like a great Business model, don't you agree!
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It is interesting that Plane Plotter for a very small one off fee can keep providing updates and live data without any large annual subscription. That said, I do appreciate all that Air Nav are doing, but costs seems somewhat high, given as Dermot points out, that we are all providing the data for AirNav to distribute.
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Really: "I've just subscribed to the 7 dau trial for live network data, however, I don't believe it has worked correctly, it still takes 30 seconds to refresh the data, I believe it should be 20 seconds with 'real time', also at the bottom of the screen it just says 'Network' instead of 'Real Time Network' as indicated it should in another thread on here."
Download and install V3.06 again.
Deadcalm: as explained above if you order the real-time network and still have months to use the paid delayed network, we will refund you those months. Just contact our support about this.
Dermot: "I totally agree that the Beta version should be available to existing "delayed Network" subscribers free"
This is exactly what is happening. The Beta V3.06 is available for free for everyone.
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QF1: we will not start discussing the quality of RadarBox vs Planeplotter or our competitors. We are very clear: AirNav Systems products have high quality, are developed by aviation professionals and we want to continue our development and to have the best possible quality and innovations on the market.
RadarBox network is by far the biggest available with more than 300 permanent sharers. There are several options: no network, delayed network and real-time network. Each one with its own price (no network is free of course).
Feel free to choose the option that's better for you.
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I quite understand your point of view and in most parts of the world RB has the best coverage, but despite what you claim, PlanePlotter is free once you have paid the small fee and while it does not have all the features of RB it does have some that RB does not have.
As you point out, it is everyone's free choice, but please don't say there is no such thing as a free network, because PlanePlotter does provide it. I use SBS, RB and PP so I am very able to compare all three products and as I have stated before on this forum, each has its own advantages.
Cheers
M
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Dermot: "I totally agree that the Beta version should be available to existing "delayed Network" subscribers free"
This is exactly what is happening. The Beta V3.06 is available for free for everyone.
I understand that the Beta version V3.06 is available to download free, however I also note that after the initial 7 day trial period that existing paid up subscribers to the delayed network must pay more for the Beta version of the Realtime Network Data. If the software for the Realtime Network Data is a Beta Version, then it goes without saying that the Realtime Network data concept is also Beta.
I don't think that AirNav appreciates the investment its customers commit to providing Data to AirNav for re-distribution/ Resale. Have AirNav ever considered paying or rewarding its subscribers for Data sent to the AirNav servers, which in turn AirNav charge both Commercial and Non-Commercial customers for this same Data?
I don't want to sound over critical of AirNav and overall I think the RB is a great product, and I have recommended it to several people. But the concept of reselling subscribers data somehow doesn't sit that well with me.
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I quite understand your point of view and in most parts of the world RB has the best coverage, but despite what you claim, PlanePlotter is free once you have paid the small fee and while it does not have all the features of RB it does have some that RB does not have.
As you point out, it is everyone's free choice, but please don't say there is no such thing as a free network, because PlanePlotter does provide it. I use SBS, RB and PP so I am very able to compare all three products and as I have stated before on this forum, each has its own advantages.
Cheers
M
qf1
How do you work out that PlanePlotter is free i had to pay for it.
and what do you get when you do pay for it, yes the network, that all i got.
from pat
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I think that the issue of sharing data and what is done with it has been done this one to death already and I can't see what is to be gained by going over it all again.
There were requests for AirNav to provide a trial period of the real-time data and they have done that. It seems fair that if you want to keep using it you have to pay for it. If you were on a subscription service for delayed data and wanted the live data instead, I'm sure I read a post that AirNav would sort out the subscription so that you were only paying one subscription and not two. If you had been around when the Network was first launched, you would have seen that the proposed charge was significantly higher, with 'credit' being given for time you shared data. When the price of the Network subscription was slashed, the concept of 'credit' was not longer relevant.
As for the concept of real-time data being beta, I don't think that this is the case as the Network has been running very successfully for a long time now. OK, the software might be beta, but it's has one heck of a wringing out by the beta team so I think that it's pretty solid, but the beta tag just gives that warning that there might be issues to be addressed when all users have access to it.
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Hi Pat
I am not sure what you are paying to PP. As I said, once you have paid the very small fee at the start, all of the updates and network are provided FREE.
If you already have the RB or SBS for local traffic, then PP is fine for looking at other parts of the world for a lot of people.
CHeers
M
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The 1 year free of delayed network that comes with any RadarBox is maintained.
Where the hell do you get it was provided free I paid over £400 for my box are you now trying to tells us we only paid for the box and you did not take in to account the price of the software for 12 months?
Why should we have to pay for beta software?
So if I pay extra for up to date software are we also going to asked for even more money for the 3D version? If so I would wait until then becuase once you sign up for the real-time data for 6 months you are locked in for that period then come next month and you ask for another €59 for 6 month you have just wasted 5 month real time data contract.
So before I update have you got a price for 3D now so we can take that in to account now please
Puddy
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Puddy: we are not sure if you properly read our posts. Please do so so we don' have to repeat ourselves post after post.
In resume: you don't have to pay for beta software not even for any upgrade.
Just download it from our servers for FREE.
Actually we never charged for any of the several upgrades that have been released during the last 2 years. Please let us know if any confusion persists.
Network access is an addon service to your software. If you like it subscribe it. If not than just keep using the software for free, forever, on your own computer receiving local flights.
Regarding RadarBox 3D: it is not an upgrade, it is a different product.
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@ Puddy you bought your Airnav Box with v 2.01 software I guess, which is currently still the supported stable software from Airnav. The beta software is provided free for anyone to download. You have the choice to use all of it's features or not, or go back to V 2.01. When V 3.06 or whatever goes final release it will still be free to Airnav Box users. Whether you decide to use some new features is up to you! Otherwise the software will still provide what you originally paid for.
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Airnav as a company has communication problems, and they can come over, non customer focused, which is still a major problem, which still needs to be sorted out!
Also Airnav is keen to blame detractors as working for the opposition! Which is not the case!
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Airnav as a company has communication problems, and they can come over, non customer focused, which is still a major problem, which still needs to be sorted out!
Also Airnav is keen to blame detractors as working for the opposition! Which is not the case!
Cannot wait to see how much they are going to charge for googles software embedded in theirs.
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Also Airnav is keen to blame detractors as working for the opposition! Which is not the case!
I have been constantly accused of working for the competition (which I am not) and being a Vulture (not sure about that?).
But to be fair to AirNav, it quickly clarified the position on the live data sharing OPTION. What it was, how to get it and the cost.
Nothing has been taken away from existing customers (of which I am one) who now have an option to see shared live data (network permitting). AirNav has also taken on board suggestions for a free trial and converting outstanding delayed data subscriptions.
Running a network server has costs and the market will determine if the subscription is priced correctly. For those who want a low cost, stand alone live network, there's always PlanePlotter or the closed user group, free networks operated by competition customers.
On this one, AirNav, in my opinion, has been open and fair and to be congratulated.
Give the guys a break as this is still a beta release.
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Also Airnav is keen to blame detractors as working for the opposition! Which is not the case!
I have been constantly accused of working for the competition (which I am not) and being a Vulture (not sure about that?).
But to be fair to AirNav, it quickly clarified the position on the live data sharing OPTION. What it was, how to get it and the cost.
Nothing has been taken away from existing customers (of which I am one) who now have an option to see shared live data (network permitting). AirNav has also taken on board suggestions for a free trial and converting outstanding delayed data subscriptions.
Running a network server has costs and the market will determine if the subscription is priced correctly. For those who want a low cost, stand alone live network, there's always PlanePlotter or the closed user group, free networks operated by competition customers.
On this one, AirNav, in my opinion, has been open and fair and to be congratulated.
Give the guys a break as this is still a beta release.
Speaking as one who doesn't always toe the party line, I totally agree with you on this one.
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Agreed Mike, it is clear that Airnav have been listening and working hard on this. There are bound to be wrinkles as the new version hits more hardware and use patterns.
Real time networking is a very nice development, it will probably need some tweaking to perfect but as you say, the market will decide if the price charged is viable.
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Well said Mike, I totally agree
Stewart
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Can someone tell me how the realtime network works in terms of which aircraft gets shown on the screen when two or more people follow the same aircraft. I don't recall getting the question answered last time I asked.
Basically, i'm curious how it decides who's data to show. If several people are following the same aircraft, everyone will have different lat and lon co-ordinates due to every person getting the info at different times. How does the network display the aircraft? I tend to lose the location data often due to my location and i'm concerned that the aircraft will jump all over the place due to different sources of data as it jumps from local to network, and or, different people.
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Can someone tell me how the realtime network works in terms of which aircraft gets shown on the screen when two or more people follow the same aircraft. I don't recall getting the question answered last time I asked.
It wouldn't matter - everyone uploads the current position the aircraft is transmitting, when you connect every 20 seconds you would get the latest location data.
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gleff: simple answer, the software will always give priority to HW flights. If the flight is not available on the HW then it gets its data from the real-time network. The server will always maintain only the last known position of each flight.
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Ahh.. okay.. that makes sense.. and the more I think about it, it makes even more sense the way I'd see the aircraft.. that's great.. I was having visions of aircraft jumping back and forth on the screen LOL.
I ordered my RB yesterday.. Can't wait to get it.
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All Ok Gleff. Any question just post it on the forum or email our support. We will be happy to assist you.
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Hi Pat
I am not sure what you are paying to PP. As I said, once you have paid the very small fee at the start, all of the updates and network are provided FREE.
If you already have the RB or SBS for local traffic, then PP is fine for looking at other parts of the world for a lot of people.
CHeers
M
hi QF1
small fee it was not that small to me, i wish i had his money, and he can even provide free network access, hes some boy.
from pat
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The concept to sell foreign unlicensed data buffles me. While the delayed data network can be considered as a garbage collection, certainly the sale of real time data are subject to a license. The owners of such data are the owners of the aircraft sending them out. Licensing is one of the big revenue generators in commercial aviation. It would be naive to believe that AA, DL, BA, LH, KL and all the others let this go unhappened and Airnav would not be flooded by legal action within a few months. Not to mention security constraints, pilot unions, CAA, OFCOMs.. just o name a few. Lawyers are just waiting for something like this to happen. Users should expect that their prepaid fees are lost once servers will be shutdown due to copyright or security infringements.
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Well, that's a very cheerful post for a Sunday morning - meant to frighten potential subscribers to the real-time Network I expect. Completely off topic too.
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Well, that's a very cheerful post for a Sunday morning - meant to frighten potential subscribers to the real-time Network I expect. Completely off topic too.
Why is it?
Surely this is relevant, given all the previous announcements and comments about legality and security issues?
This is untested water and it is possible that outside influences could shut down the Airnav network servers. Personally I wouldn't welcome it but if one has paid an advance subscription, would it be refunded? Could it be?
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OK, I'll rephrase that - the statement by palmar was out of CONTEXT with the way that the thread was progressing.
It does make me laugh how there were so many people complaining about the 5-minute delay and that there was no law to say that it should exist. Now that there is the option to view real-time data, the doom merchants are coming out to say how awful it is that this is available and how everybody is going to loose their money. As I see it. it's pure scaremongering and it is a direct attempt to discourage people from subscribing - I just can't see it any other way I'm afraid.
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Having woken up to Network working and access to realtime flights, I had to switch off my PC for half an hour and when I returned to it and RB I find I am back to delayed Network. Anyone else getting this happen....?
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No. All OK here.
J.
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Have shut down, waited five minutes and restarted and back to Real-tim. Very strange :-(
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Palmar,
We have already discussed this with our lawyers and also taken our time to consult many different authorities and got the go ahead. If there is a change a law or something does happen the customers will be protected and any time lost they will be refunded for.
Your post is a bit scare mongering and I our promise of refund on unused subscription puts it to rest for you and any others thinking along the same lines.
Roadrunner,
Shouldn't be like that, are you sure you didn't start a older version of RB :) We have had a few support tickets like that.
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Roadrunner,
Shouldn't be like that, are you sure you didn't start a older version of RB :) We have had a few support tickets like that.
AirNav,
Only have v3.6 on my laptop so wasnt that but been OK since
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Like our Support write there is no reason for users to have any problem.
PS: We don't understand why the same users that complained so much about the lack of a Real-Time Network are now complaining about the problems that might arise from having it. Again the answers from our support say it all. Almost 100 users subscribed during the last 2 days which is an absolute success and shows that these kind of fears do not exist.
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AirNav, you can't please everybody all the time.
I for one am very happy with the live network data feature, it's expanded my area by a massive amount, thanks for adding this amazing feature.
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AirNav, you can't please everybody all the time.
I for one am very happy with the live network data feature, it's expanded my area by a massive amount, thanks for adding this amazing feature.
hi all
and now we have the barrack room lawyers, from its looks like the vultures site
did not take them long to pick over the pickings.
all well its Sunday and i am having a pint.
from pat.
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I wish I could join you in a pint Pat, but I have to drive back to London tonight :-(
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Like our Support write there is no reason for users to have any problem.
PS: We don't understand why the same users that complained so much about the lack of a Real-Time Network are now complaining about the problems that might arise from having it. Again the answers from our support say it all. Almost 100 users subscribed during the last 2 days which is an absolute success and shows that these kind of fears do not exist.
It will be interesting to see whether your lawyers are correct, but from my perspective it's exactly the development I wanted to see and I'm pleased that someone has the "cojones" to do it.
Since the data is now easily available from cheap receivers, it's inevitable that it will also become available via a network connection independently from the "authorised" sources that exist at present.
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Airnav
I am still getting 30 second updates instead of 20 on the Live Network.
I have done a reinstall and it is still the same.
Can you help please?
Simon
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Have you tried everything in this thread?
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=3486.0
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before i subscribe to the life network, i would like to know how exactly i can stop the automatic debit from my creditcard, in the event i want to stop using life network after one or more periods of 6 months ?
- do i have to inform airnav a given period in advance ?
- is a simple e-mail enough, and to who have i to adres it ?
basicly what i'm asking : how do i cancel my subscibtion ?
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On our contact page, there is cancel form for subscriptions.
There is no notice period though you won't get refunded your remaining time. You can cancel your subscription to renew further. If however you only a week into your subscription we can refund that.
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thanks for the quick answer Airnav
i had'nd noticed that "cancel form" before, but now that all is clear to me, you can expect my subscribtion later today.
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On our contact page, there is cancel form for subscriptions.
There is no notice period though you won't get refunded your remaining time. You can cancel your subscription to renew further. If however you only a week into your subscription we can refund that.
Would it be possible to arrange for a subscription to simply cease unless deliberately renewed please? I really don't like continuous authorities on credit cards, they remove many of the protections provided by direct debits.
Airnav, does the same thing happen if using Paypal?
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Presently I am taking advantage of Air Nav's offer of a seven day free trial of the real time network.The network ,however, is only being updated every 30 seconds as opposed to 20 seconds which I understood to be the norm.
Obviously I am using version 3.06 beta which in every other respect appears to be working quite normally and I am very pleased with.
I notice from other comments on this thread that other people have the same problem with the updating of real time network.
Before I commit to a six monthly subsciption I would like confirmation that a 20 second updating interval should be the norm and not 30 seconds and also the reason why I am not getting a 20 second update as promised.
Mike
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There is a possibility that you have an earlier version of the anrb.exe file. I'll find the link and post it here shortly.
EDIT: I presume that you are running the Beta V3.06 software.
http://www.airnavsystems.com/forum/index.php?topic=3483.0
The real-network countdown runs from 20 to zero, not 30 to zero.
Confirm that it says Real-Time Network next to the green indicator?
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Hi Allocator,
Thanks for your reply.
On 4 10 09 I downloaded the full version of version 3.06 beta from the link that you have quoted which was after the date on 01 10 09 when Air Nav said the updated exe was there which is what has confused me a little.
Anyway, problem now resolved as I have downloaded the updated exe and installed it in the Air Nav folder and the live network is now counting down from 20 seconds and not 30.
Many thanks,Allocator. Your help much appreciated.
Mike
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Hi Support,
Last week, Oktober 7th, I bought a subscription on a AirNav RadarBox Network Account (Realtime = 20 sec).
I payed € 59,95 for that. All was confirmed by an email with the message: "Your AirNav RadarBox subscription is now active."
All was working fine until sofar.
Now, after restarting my system, it suddenly changed into "delayed 5 minutes".
What is happening? I am not happy with this situation. Help will be verry welcome.
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same problem here, a message saying that the data is delayed 5 minutes, and that real-time network is available at an extra cost ?!!!
on the network "tab" i'm baclk to normal network with 30 sec delay
i did payed for real-time last week.
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I got this problem when upgrading to the latest Beta V3.07. On first run, I got the real-time network availability information pane and delayed 30 sec update Network data.
I double clicked the message and selected the 'hide forever' option.
I closed down RB, paused for 10 seconds and restarted and I got the Real-Time label next to the Network green indicator and the correct 20 second update.
I presume that you have tried shutting RB down and running it again.
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Allocator,
Thank you! I did as you described and all looks to be back as normal.
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same here :-)
thanks for the tip
still, i find it weird to happen.
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OK John, no problem. I've reported this on the Beta part of the forum. It's probably the software expecting the user not to be already subscribed to the real-time Network. Once you have used real-time, there's no going back - lol
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Hi All,
An obvious qestion perhaps but how is the real time network. Is it worth the additional cost?
Objectiveviews would be very welcome!
Thanks,
Dave
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dca,
In my opinion I would never go back. To be able to follow an aircraft in more or less real time and listen to it on VHF is a real bonus and I wonder how I put up with the 5 min delay before.
It rather depends on what your particular interest is.
J.
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It sounds very similar to you Jeremy, I always use ANRB in conjunction with ATC.
Thanks for your comments!
Dave
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dca,
In my opinion I would never go back. To be able to follow an aircraft in more or less real time and listen to it on VHF is a real bonus and I wonder how I put up with the 5 min delay before.
It rather depends on what your particular interest is.
J.
keeps the reports coming, maybe a video.
from pat
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Try the AirNav Team YouTube video channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AirNavTeam
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Hi All,
Is there any known problem with the realtime Network at this moment? I bought (and payed) last week a half-year subscription but today my accountstatus say:
User Report
User Email: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Account was created on: 2009/10/07 18:40
Account was valid until: 2009/10/15 18:40
Your Account expired.
I informed Support allready this morning.
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I subscribe this morning John & it's working fine with me!
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Not with me until sofar. Until sofar no reaction from support as well.
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John, I had the same problem when I upgraded to Live Network Data.
The field that says "User Email", does this actually show your email?
If so, you need to use the Codes shown on the CD that RB came on the one that starts PGANRBXXXXXX.
Hope this helps
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"1- Are there is any trials available for AirNav RadarBox Real-Time Network:
Affirm, we have just created them.
Follow this link to get a free trial for 7 days. Note that if you do not cancel it, you will be charged after those 7 days and your trial will automatically turn into a full subscription. This is exactly the way all our other applications work."
I subscribed to the free trial and my account status now says this:-
"User Report
User Email: PGANRB100XXX
Account was created on: 2009/10/08 20:41
Account was valid until: 2009/10/16 20:41
Your Account expired.
To subscribe for another period and continue to receive realtime data click here
For further information please go to AirNav Systems Support"
That's fair enough if I have to subscribe again for the full Real Time Network but it contradicts the statement about an auto rebill after 7 days at the start of this thread. Which is correct?
I have not received any e-mails regarding the change in my account status.
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Contact us via the methods in our signature and we will be able to check your account and see what happend with the payment.
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Contact us via the methods in our signature and we will be able to check your account and see what happend with the payment.
Thanks.
I will send an e-mail to support later.
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I decided to try the trial at the weekend. Still evaluting it for now. However, I see that my polar diagram expands dramatically when using the real time network ? Seems that some (not all) of the network flights are being taken into consideration by the polar diagram. Surely this is not correct... or is it ?? I haven't seen any other reports of this, so am I the only one to have this ?
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Hi eggplant - some Beta testers have noticed this too - still not sure what's going on there, but it's probably a glitch.
Rod