AirNav Systems Forum

AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: EK01 on February 24, 2009, 12:08:20 PM

Title: ID REACH355
Post by: EK01 on February 24, 2009, 12:08:20 PM

Hi Guys,

Above aircraft came on the interface today showing as a Learjet C-21A, registration 84-0094 and in the details at the bottom is showing as belonging to the USAF. However in the grid, itself it is showing as belonging to Aer Arann which is clearly incorrect. How do I delete the Aer Arann information from database explorer. I have tried a few permutations but, so far, without success.

Cheers.

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: tarbat on February 24, 2009, 12:47:20 PM

The logo is derived from the Flight ID, in this case REACH355.

So, you would need to change the REA.BMP logo in the logos folder to something more appropriate, say like the RCH.BMP one.  However, that would also change the logo for genuine Aer Arann flights as well.

Only you can decide whether having the correct logo for USAF Reach flights is more important than having the correct logo for Aer Arann flights.  Normally the USAF Reach flights have a Flight ID of RCHxxx

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: DaveReid on February 24, 2009, 04:57:14 PM

Quote from: tarbat on February 24, 2009, 12:47:20 PM

The logo is derived from the Flight ID, in this case REACH355.

So, you would need to change the REA.BMP logo in the logos folder to something more appropriate, say like the RCH.BMP one.  However, that would also change the logo for genuine Aer Arann flights as well.

Only you can decide whether having the correct logo for USAF Reach flights is more important than having the correct logo for Aer Arann flights.  Normally the USAF Reach flights have a Flight ID of RCHxxx

A better solution would be some more robust logic in the RadarBox code that resolves logos.

AFAIK, the ICAO rules state that a genuine three-letter ICAO prefix should be followed by either a number (with or without a suffix), e.g. BMA8HY, or an alphanumeric combination where letters and numbers can be mixed provided that the combination starts with a number, e.g. RYR8KG3.

From the above it follows that, if the 4th character of the Flight ID is a letter, as in the REACH355 example, then the preceding letters aren't going to be a valid ICAO code, or if they are it's just a coincidence - either way they shouldn't be used as the basis for displaying a logo.

Something for a future RB release, perhaps ?

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: RodBearden on February 24, 2009, 05:54:36 PM

As an extension of Dave's suggestion, how about logic that if the third character is a number, use just the first two letters - many airlines use their IATA code.

Rod

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: viking9 on February 24, 2009, 06:03:48 PM

Don't Reach aircraft transmit RCH followed by numeric characters and not REACH?

Tom

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: Fenris on February 24, 2009, 06:20:30 PM

Not all of them it seems, there is probably no standard way of programming the transponder specified.

Some sort of "If this is received, link it to that logo" approach would be useful because everyone's situation is just a little different and some local munging would go a long way to fixing it.

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: viking9 on February 24, 2009, 07:04:52 PM

Quote from: Fenris on February 24, 2009, 06:20:30 PM

Not all of them it seems, there is probably no standard way of programming the transponder specified.

Some sort of "If this is received, link it to that logo" approach would be useful because everyone's situation is just a little different and some local munging would go a long way to fixing it.

Brian,

I've checked back on all C-17 Reach flights in my logs and they all send RCH followed by three or four digits. I have never seen one listed as transmitting 'Reach' from the transponder. If they did then SBS-1 and RadarBox woud have to convert it, something I very much doubt happens.

Tom

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: abrad41 on February 24, 2009, 07:14:06 PM

Tom

Hi Tom, I think I have seen some of the tankers on the base useing the Reach call sign instead of the QID callsign.

Andy

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: Keith L on February 24, 2009, 07:26:33 PM

I have (rarely) seen REACH*** as a reported callsign, oddly, there was one today:

AE0188   REACH355 84-0094   LJ35   USA - Air Force   24/02/2009 14:05

I've also noticed aircraft which usually wear a RCH callsign sometimes showing E1234 as a callsign where 1234 are the last digits of the tail number.

Keith

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: viking9 on February 24, 2009, 08:54:52 PM

Hi Andy and Keith,

Well yes , REACH355 is the aircraft under discussion. I've just read an email from a guy in the States and he says that there are a number of C-21As over there transmitting RCH but not REACH.  84-0094 is from the 375th AW.

As to KC135s of the 100th ARW using 'Reach' in their callsigns, I understood that is sometimes used when tanking Reach aircraft. Even then the transponder sends RCH. Of course the flight crew on 100th ARW often miss-key their c/s either intentionally or otherwise and I get a totally different c/s on RB from that heard on VHF/UHF.

BTW Andy, have you any word on RAMMAs coming our way? I see some exclusion zones set up in the oggin for tomorrow night. Assume it's for AAR. Would be great for our RHWW meet at the Hall on Thurs if we had a couple in.

Tom

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: Keith L on February 25, 2009, 07:01:36 AM

Doh, sorry Tom that was dumb of me.  Here are a couple:

ADFE6D  REACH544  91-1653  C130  US Mil 2 19/02/2009 10:02
ADFDBE  REACH378  93-7311  C130  US Mil 2 13/02/2009 13:22
ADFE83   REACH145  92-0548  C130 US Mil 2  12/02/2009 20:54

Cheers  Keith

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: abrad41 on February 25, 2009, 09:48:53 AM

Hi Tom

We don't hear to much in our department until they hit the ground.

Andy

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: EK01 on February 25, 2009, 11:46:30 AM

Thanks, guys.

As Aer Arann are unlikely to transmit ADSB, I think as suggested by Tarbat, I will change there bitmap of REA to show the same logo as that of RCH.

Cheers.

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: viking9 on February 25, 2009, 11:54:10 AM

Quote from: Keith L on February 25, 2009, 07:01:36 AM

Doh, sorry Tom that was dumb of me.  Here are a couple:

ADFE6D  REACH544  91-1653  C130  US Mil 2 19/02/2009 10:02
ADFDBE  REACH378  93-7311  C130  US Mil 2 13/02/2009 13:22
ADFE83   REACH145  92-0548  C130 US Mil 2  12/02/2009 20:54

Cheers 

Keith

Hi Keith,

Thanks for listing those for me. They are in my MyLog too but until you listed the mode S I wasn't able to search for them as MyLog has no facility for searching on Flight ID (Hopefully in the next version).

I think it is still extremely rare for a Reach aircraft to transmit 'REACH' so I would not make any changes to the logos.

Tom

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: viking9 on February 25, 2009, 11:55:57 AM

Quote from: abrad41 on February 25, 2009, 09:48:53 AM

Hi Tom

We don't hear to much in our department until they hit the ground.

Andy

Hit the ground! Ouch! :-)

Tom

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: DaveReid on February 25, 2009, 11:57:46 AM

Quote from: viking9 on February 24, 2009, 07:04:52 PM

I think it is still extremely rare for a Reach aircraft to transmit 'REACH'

30/04/2008 REACH 01 AE021A
24/06/2006 REACH 31 ADFDDD
03/12/2006 REACH 31 AE1295
04/01/2007 REACH 31 AE1295
09/01/2007 REACH 31 AE0223
10/01/2007 REACH 31 AE1295
22/01/2007 REACH 31 AE1295
13/02/2007 REACH 31 AE1295
18/02/2007 REACH 31 AE1295
01/03/2007 REACH 31 AE1295
03/03/2007 REACH 31 AE1295
19/03/2007 REACH 31 AE1295
23/03/2007 REACH 31 AE1295
27/03/2007 REACH 31 AE1295
27/01/2007 REACH 33 AE12C4
30/01/2007 REACH 33 AE12C4
31/01/2007 REACH 33 AE12C4
01/02/2007 REACH 33 AE12C4
07/02/2007 REACH 33 AE12C4
02/05/2007 REACH 70 AE14F5
09/12/2007 REACH01  AE0236
12/01/2009 REACH022 AE0314
06/03/2008 REACH066 AE0224
14/05/2006 REACH104 ADFEA3
19/01/2009 REACH109 AE030C
26/08/2008 REACH113 AE0320
18/12/2007 REACH116 ADFE70
02/04/2008 REACH123 AE02DC
19/02/2008 REACH137 AE1896
11/06/2008 REACH137 AE02F5
26/06/2007 REACH138 AE0234
16/03/2008 REACH149 AE05D7
20/04/2008 REACH164 AE1535
22/04/2008 REACH164 AE1535
27/07/2008 REACH168 AE0611
09/11/2007 REACH169 AE0225
24/11/2008 REACH169 ADFE87
15/07/2006 REACH172 AE0677
15/01/2008 REACH178 AE031A
18/06/2007 REACH18  520276
26/07/2006 REACH190 AE021D
30/09/2007 REACH192 AE05D1
27/03/2008 REACH200 ADFEAE
17/07/2006 REACH21  AE07A7
15/04/2008 REACH211 AE0228
09/08/2006 REACH212 AE0209
11/10/2007 REACH212 ADFDAF
12/11/2008 REACH225 AE12D0
16/03/2008 REACH228 AE05DB
24/12/2006 REACH234 AE0228
16/01/2007 REACH234 AE0228
21/02/2007 REACH234 ADFEA6
03/10/2007 REACH241 AE0603
07/06/2008 REACH245 AE1535
07/09/2006 REACH250 AE061D
31/05/2006 REACH251 AE021E
06/06/2006 REACH253 AE0228
27/09/2006 REACH253 ADFDDE
17/07/2007 REACH255 AE061C
18/07/2007 REACH255 AE061C
11/09/2006 REACH256 AE05C0
03/04/2008 REACH257 AE0313
27/09/2007 REACH258 AE0605
17/07/2008 REACH258 ADFDDC
21/11/2007 REACH263 AE0224
30/04/2007 REACH265 AE0218
12/08/2007 REACH265 AE031A
18/02/2007 REACH275 AE0223
24/08/2006 REACH281 ADFE80
25/08/2006 REACH281 ADFE80
25/08/2008 REACH296 AA42B5
12/01/2007 REACH314 AE05D1
06/04/2008 REACH319 AE02DD
23/09/2006 REACH340 AE05D7
16/12/2006 REACH340 AE05D7
17/03/2008 REACH343 ADFE6F
18/03/2008 REACH343 ADFE6F
23/09/2006 REACH346 AE05DB
02/06/2006 REACH347 AE02EF
08/11/2006 REACH348 AE01DD
16/03/2008 REACH349 AE0220
26/09/2006 REACH353 ADFDDF
05/07/2006 REACH360 AE02DB
24/09/2006 REACH360 AE0305
23/06/2006 REACH369 ADFDB7
24/06/2006 REACH369 ADFDB7
01/03/2008 REACH370 AE022F
17/02/2008 REACH372 AE0131
15/06/2006 REACH391 ADFDB6
17/02/2009 REACH397 ADFDB9
08/03/2008 REACH398 AE0224
30/03/2006 REACH41  AE12BB
03/04/2006 REACH41  AE12BB
04/04/2006 REACH41  AE12BB
05/04/2006 REACH41  AE12BB
24/05/2006 REACH41  AE1284
24/04/2007 REACH432 AE125F
28/04/2007 REACH432 AE125F
04/05/2006 REACH455 ADFDC2
05/05/2006 REACH455 ADFDC2
28/03/2007 REACH479 AE0188
19/06/2006 REACH547 ADFE85
10/05/2006 REACH557 AE0600
13/09/2007 REACH573 AE0537
21/06/2008 REACH598 AE031A
26/09/2006 REACH632 ADFDDD
04/02/2009 REACH635 AE0218
12/08/2008 REACH641 ADFDBB
09/10/2007 REACH652 ADFDAF
29/08/2006 REACH655 AE0234
05/09/2006 REACH655 AE0234
13/09/2006 REACH655 AE0234
15/10/2006 REACH655 AE0234
28/02/2008 REACH657 AE130A
07/04/2008 REACH674 AE0228
21/09/2007 REACH684 AE0216
24/09/2007 REACH684 AE0216
28/03/2007 REACH710 AE01DC
06/08/2007 REACH751 AA2DC9
30/04/2007 REACH754 A42DD1
15/09/2007 REACH755 A42DD1
25/10/2007 REACH756 A82335
06/05/2007 REACH763 A85F41
09/05/2007 REACH763 A85F41
28/07/2006 REACH779 AE021D
13/09/2007 REACH781 A95DBD
14/09/2007 REACH781 A95DBD
16/01/2007 REACH782 A42DD1
20/10/2006 REACH80  AE083B
27/09/2007 REACH810 A42DD1
04/01/2008 REACH812 A15B05
07/02/2009 REACH828 A2A692
30/04/2008 REACH857 AE0130
09/11/2007 REACH860 AE0326
10/11/2007 REACH860 AE0326
22/08/2007 REACH868 AE1535
14/10/2007 REACH876 ADFE70
12/05/2008 REACH907 AE061D
19/07/2007 REACH915 AE0544
18/10/2008 REACH924 AE0307
03/09/2007 REACH931 AE05FE
01/10/2007 REACH932 AE021B
12/11/2008 REACH935 AE12E6
08/08/2007 REACH941 AE1161
08/11/2007 REACH941 AE1530
12/01/2009 REACH948 AE0224
21/01/2009 REACH948 AE0224
23/09/2008 REACH959 AE021F
15/01/2009 REACH962 ADFE84
21/08/2008 REACH963 AE0308
08/01/2009 REACH971 AE0216
16/07/2006 REACH980 AE021D
29/10/2006 REACH981 AE0130
04/11/2006 REACH981 AE0130
29/12/2007 REACH981 AE0622
22/03/2006 REACH982 AE020D
23/03/2006 REACH982 AE020D
04/12/2007 REACH998 ADFDB9
15/06/2007 REACH999 AE0208

Quote

so I would not make any changes to the logos.

I agree that changing the logos isn't the solution - having RB/SBS interpret the callsign more intelligently is.

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: tarbat on February 25, 2009, 12:02:52 PM

IF you want to find all REACH flights in your log, you could run the following SQL:

SELECT DISTINCT 
  Aircraft.Registration AS "Reg",
  Flights.Callsign AS "Flight ID",
  Flights.Route AS "Route",
  Aircraft.AircraftTypeSmall AS "ICAO Type",
  Aircraft.Airline AS "Airline",
  Aircraft.AircraftTypeLong AS "Aircraft",
  substr(Flights.EndTime,1,16) AS "Flight Ended",
  Aircraft.ModeS AS "Mode S"
FROM
 Aircraft
 LEFT OUTER JOIN Flights ON (Aircraft.ModeS=Flights.ModeS)
WHERE
  (Flights.Callsign Like "REA%")

I've only got two:

Reg   Flight ID   Route   ICAO Type   Airline   Aircraft
84-0094   REACH355      LJ35   USA - Air Force   Gates Learjet C-21A (35A)
91-1653   REACH544      ...   United States Air Force   Lockheed C130H Hercules

So, if you never expect to see Aer Arann flights, just change the logo for REA.BMP to be the same one as RCH.BMP.

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: viking9 on February 25, 2009, 12:08:21 PM

Dave,

Still very rare, when you consider the hundreds of Reach flights that pass over UK in a year.


I think SBS is better at resolving the c/s as time and time again when I have no c/s showing in RB, colleagues in Reach Hunters Worldwide are showing the c/s on their SBS. Sometimes I even have an incorect c/s showing for an aircraft when SBS users have the correct one.

Tom

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: DaveReid on February 25, 2009, 12:12:47 PM

Quote from: viking9 on February 25, 2009, 12:08:21 PM

I think SBS is better at resolving the c/s as time and time again when I have no c/s showing in RB, colleagues in Reach Hunters Worldwide are showing the c/s on their SBS.

Yes, it's a known fact that (pending a fix to the RB bug) SBS currently decodes certain callsign transmissions that RB doesn't

Quote

Sometimes I even have an incorrect c/s showing for an aircraft when SBS users have the correct one.

That's more difficult to understand.

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: viking9 on February 25, 2009, 12:13:49 PM

Quote from: tarbat on February 25, 2009, 12:02:52 PM

IF you want to find all REACH flights in your log, you could run the following SQL:

Tarbat,

Well, yes I could, but I don't have an SQL app and searching on all recorded data is something that I would expect to be built in to ANRB.

Tom

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: tarbat on February 25, 2009, 01:22:02 PM

Tom, agreed.   It was just a suggested work-around whilst we wait for new MyLog query features.  There are free SQLite apps around - SQLite Database Browser (http://sqlitebrowser.sourceforge.net/), for example.

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: viking9 on February 25, 2009, 01:34:26 PM

Tarbat,

It's alright for you in remote Tarbatland. You have plenty of time between aircraft to mess about with SQL and programming etc. With 5 or 6 mil aircraft at a time to track in PP and MyCircles, listening to them on vhf/uhf, checking the maps for waypoints and running in and out to the garden to clock the ones OTT and report them on other groups, I just don't have the time to do other things.

Tom

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: jgrloit on February 27, 2009, 01:49:33 PM

Another REACH 253  AE12FE 62-1806  a C130 @ 20000 working Scottish as 4306.

Title: Re: ID REACH355
Post by: viking9 on February 27, 2009, 02:27:26 PM

Quote from: jgrloit on February 27, 2009, 01:49:33 PM

Another REACH 253  AE12FE 62-1806  a C130 @ 20000 working Scottish as 4306.

That aircraft left Milldenhall at about 12:45. He's in my log at 2,000ft at 12:47. I lost him at 17,600ft at 13:08.

Tom