AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: nbquidditch on October 29, 2009, 09:38:55 PM
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Message for support!
Hi, I've now had my Radarbox for nearly a year and almost 3 weeks ago I sent it back to W&S for the second time with filter problems!
The first time I sent it back It was returned within a week repaired but as stated above I'm still waiting this time 3-weeks on. I telephoned late last week and again this week to be told they are awaiting parts!! Considering I've paid nearly £500 for this unit and have returned it twice I think there should be serious consideration in relation to replacing the box as new!!! Can someone please explain the situation regarding parts??
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Have you emailed our support? It usually doesn't take more than 1 week for the repair to take place. also please check with our support for suggestions as it is not common to have the same problem twice (something could be wrong in your setup).
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I am in Japan and received excellent service from W&S - Got it back with 10 days of sending it which I was pleasantly surprised at. Works really well but I hope I don`t have same problem again. Would be sure if you make direct contact with Airnav / W&S they`ll look after you.
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Mine's been gone at least two weeks now. What's the turn around time for the USA?
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This delay in repairing units was caused by a shortage of some components.
As we are still waiting for them to be sent from our factory, we are sending out replacement units to customers today.
So the situation is solved.
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While I appreciate the fact that your sending out replacemants today you've now had my RB for 3 weeks. In my opinion that is far too long without any direct correspondace from you. I've had to call twice and email twice, the second is still unanswered to find out what the problem was!
I was just about to email again when fortunatly I logged on to this forum and discovered this updated message.
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OK! I'm trying to stay really positive about this, having had excellent support in the past, however my patience is now running thin!
I received my RB back yesterday after 3-weeks with W&S (not a NEW unit as stated but a new board) and duly plugged it back in. My delight at having received it back soon turned to despair when there was no improvement whatsoever!! I originally sent it back due to my flights reducing from 75+ to near zero. I am still only picking up a single flight and even then they have to be literally overhead.
I've ordered a new antenna from W&S in the hope that this is now the problem or am I missing something here?
A frustrated NBQuidditch :(
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Ask W&S if they replicated your problem before they made the repair and then tested it afterwards?
You might be spending money on a new antenna that you don't need?
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All the RBs whether new or repaired are checked before leaving. Unless something happened on the delivery I would check your antenna.
If its a external antenna read the FAQ about static.
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But does W&S test them before the repair and diagnose the fault?
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Yes, otherwise how would they know what to repair :)
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Regarding the Antenna it's the one that came with with the original unit. I live aboard a narrowboat and the antenna is kept in the front cratch under cover!
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When W&S did my repair they enclosed an invoice type note on return stating the repair they had done - in my case front end filter.
Was there no note with yours? If not,why not ring them and find out what the problem was and what they did to fix it.
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My RB has been back to W&S twice with the same problem (and if & when the new antenna arrives maybe 3 times) ! The 1st time I had it back within a week. This time I waited 3-weeks and even then got no feedback from support! I had to phone & email twice to discover that they were awaiting parts which I find astonishing!!
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Last poster post was deleted and his account removed, it was confirmed he was using a proxy in Holland and now logging on using an Italian IP address though he had mentioned he was from Iceland.
It was clear from the 3 posts he had posted under that account that he was stirring for trouble. If anyone is caught like this again there post and account will be deleted.
Now lets get back to discussing things as normal adults :)
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Regarding the Antenna it's the one that came with with the original unit. I live aboard a narrowboat and the antenna is kept in the front cratch under cover!
If you have a multimeter check the connection between the centre pin of the SMA connector and the screw base that the antenna element attaches to.
Some people have found that there is a problem with the soldering under the base, if you have poor contact then it is possible to repair it but it requires peeling off the sealing disk under the magnetic base.
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For some reason my post has not arrived.
'Ditch,
Is your aerial in the same place on your narrowboat where you had the 75 a/c logged? If you have the antenna out from under the roof the aerial is almost surrounded by the metal frame of the narrowboat. If you put it out on top of the boat then you have the best groundplane of us all!
Jeremy.
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Would the lack of any earth on a narrow-boat have any effect? Probably not, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
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Would the lack of any earth on a narrow-boat have any effect? Probably not, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
No, the earth, or more correctly ground, side of the antenna is purely there to create the plane in which the antenna monopole element is mirrored. Of course that mirrored half is not actually there, but from a current flow point of view it's a necessary thing to make the equations work.
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. I don't have a multi meter Fenris I'm not THAT technical I just enjoy using RB and and happy with the standard kit :)
The antenna does sit on the roof when the weather is good and sits under the canvas cratch at the front when not and I get lots of flights with either.
I think I am earthed anyway by means of the shore line electric on the pontoon?? The antenna is in the same place as usual and I'm directly on Birmingham & Coventry approach with dozens of other flights around at peak I sometimes get 150+ and can even pick up lower level stuff going into Heathrow, Gatwick & Stanstead on a good day.
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If you have a multimeter check the connection between the centre pin of the SMA connector and the screw base that the antenna element attaches to.
The multimeter check has the hazard that on an old-style RB the first stage filter is loaded with DC. The datasheet of the Taisaw TA1090EC device states:
MAXIMUM DC INPUT VOLTAGE = 0V
The hazard is not that dramatic if the SMA connector is DC isolated from the filter by a capacitor. (Even though a momentary connection may generate a voltage peak on the filter input).
The above hint is box suicide.
Keep off any antenna connector with external voltages!
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You will note that my suggestion was to measure from the antenna base to the SMA connector on the antenna cable, naturally you can only do this when the antenna is disconnected from the RadarBox.
Also note that there is a DC blocking capacitor between the antenna connection/protection device and the SAW filter, so it's difficult to put DC directly on the filter, there will be a small transient voltage though, but no more.
It occurs to me that perhaps the front end static sensitivity could be improved by having a DC ground via an inductor, that inductor could then be resonated at 1090MHz with a parallel capacitor and then it would not load the 50 ohm connection into the front end. That solution would be better than using the protection device that is used at present because it presents a dead short at DC rather than requiring some voltage to switch on that device.
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Hi Palmar, my reading of Brian's post is to check the continuity of the antenna lead and plug, not the RB itself.
Sorry, Brian, just seen you've posted while I was typing!
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OK guys, received my new antenna today from W&S, the standard one that comes with the original kit, and instantly upon connection I'm getting 75+ flights once more!! So all is well. My question to support is? Surely the antenna is covered within my 1 years guarantee, I’ve just forked out £22.95 for a replacement I'm surely entitled to a refund?
Cheers
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Its covered if it was a failure of the antenna totally. If its something that wear and tear caused then its not covered.
We do not advise that you use the standard antenna as an external antenna.
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The original standard antenna was used nearly always under cover and very occasionally externally during good weather! it still looks in excellent condition and shows no apparent reason for failure.
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I would suspect a problem with the centre pin on the antenna connecting lead - there's been several reports of problems with the centre pin on the standard antenna lead.
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You will note that my suggestion was to measure from the antenna base to the SMA connector on the antenna cable, naturally you can only do this when the antenna is disconnected from the RadarBox.
Also note that there is a DC blocking capacitor between the antenna connection/protection device and the SAW filter, so it's difficult to put DC directly on the filter, there will be a small transient voltage though, but no more.
It occurs to me that perhaps the front end static sensitivity could be improved by having a DC ground via an inductor, that inductor could then be resonated at 1090MHz with a parallel capacitor and then it would not load the 50 ohm connection into the front end. That solution would be better than using the protection device that is used at present because it presents a dead short at DC rather than requiring some voltage to switch on that device.
Forgive, I read your message to check between the connector and the PCB soldering point.
The early devices (until which s/n?) have no DC blocking capacitor, that's why I still suggest everybody is very careful when touching the connector. An inductor or surpressor diodes would help but the SBS-1e has exactly the same input stage and no such failures are known. That's why I suspect the problem has to do with earth/ground looping between the antenna, PC and mains.
It would be interesting if on devices that have been repaired a blocking capacitor has been added and whether these devices have failed again (seems to me that this has happened, from the above)
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Tarbat your absolutely right!!! I just checked both antenna's new & old and can see quite clearly that the pin in the orginal antenna has disappeared!!!
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Tarbat your absolutely right!!! I just checked both antenna's new & old and can see quite clearly that the pin in the orginal antenna has disappeared!!!
Glad it's sorted. Maybe you can return the antenna you purchased for a refund.
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Ill certainly try thanks!! I'm a little disappointed that support didn't suggest I tried this when I first reported the problem!! I seem to remember you mentioning this on another thread some time ago as well.
Anyway surfice to say I plugged my original antenna back in after retrieving the pin and it all works fine.
Thanks for the help.