AirNav Systems Forum
AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com => AirNav RadarBox and RadarBox24.com Discussion => Topic started by: sasa1000 on April 20, 2010, 07:10:27 PM
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Sorry for so many questions folks but as stated in my prev post I am waiting on my new ANRB coming with free Radar Rama 1090 antenna. I would be grateful if someone could tell me what I need in way of connectors and best kind of cable so I can order it and get connected to my box asap. It would be good to know names of connectors and how many male or female etc so I can just google it. I may strike lucky and get from local boat electronics company so any alternatives for cable would be appreciated.
Thanks again.
Sandy
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You will probably need N type connectors for that antenna. Also low loss coax is essential, so Westflex 103 is a good compromise - look at www.whwestlake.co.uk for cable and connectors. Better to get a patch-lead made up as well with thinner coax to connect Radarbox to the Westflex 103 with SMA to whatever connector you have at the end of the 103
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hello
westflex 103 is what we use as well and it seem to be a good, reasonably priced cable as long as you buy it direct from here www.whwestlake.co.uk as I saw big fluctuations in price between different suppliers when we were looking.
Andrew
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Thanks again guys for the advice, but could you clarify on exactly what connectors I need i.e. sma to connector at end of Westflex 103. Also what is the max length of coax that is advisable as this seems the easiest option for me, then I can keep RadarBox beside computer.
Sorry for being a pain with the questions, but I want to be up and running asap.
Sandy
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Best to check with moonraker to see what connectors they provide as their package. It might already have the right connectors.
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hello
we use 15m without amplifier and notice no serious losses.
Andrew
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That's good to know Andrew as I was hoping to just connect longer coax from box to antenna and try it upstairs (PC down) Good to know I won't have to buy an amp.
Sandy
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That's good to know Andrew as I was hoping to just connect longer coax from box to antenna and try it upstairs (PC down) Good to know I won't have to buy an amp.
Sandy
hello
we have the radar extender with a 6.3dbi and the radar rama has a gain of 5 dbi so you might not get off with as much coax although I don't know much about gain calculations.
Andrew
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With 20m of Westflex 103 plus connectors the loss will be about 3dB - which is 50% of the signal at the antenna. I'm always a bit suspicious about "gain" figures quoted for vertical antennas, but if it is 5dBi then that's closer to 3dB over a basic dipole - so the gain of the antenna is basically cancelled out by loss in the coax.
Best to get antenna as high and clear as possible, but longer coax means more loss and more expensive !! - so some sort of compromise. Best just to experiment and see what happens - you can always improve your setup at a later date if needed.
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Hi Sandy, just to throw another little spanner in the works, Westflex 103 is good, but also very stiff and inflexible, so you will need to use a patch lead as smcm said above, N-type to SMA, an absolute minimum of 15cms, preferably 45cms to my choice. 103 cannot be bent in tight turns or bends, so keep the run as straight as possible. You also need to get special "103" N-type fittings as the central core is too thick for standard N-type, RG213 is slightly more flexible, but a bit more lossy.
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Thanks guys for all the advice, some of it is a bit over my head just now, i.e. gain & loss, patch leads etc so I will keep reading up on all I can find on the forum till it comes. Only experience I have with this sort of thing is working with coax for tv/sky etc which is a world apart. I'm sure I'll be able to see what I need better when I get the box and experiment.
You're a helpful bunch on here I see.
Sandy
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hello
here is the patch lead we use http://www.rocketradio.co.uk/sma-to-n-type-female-adaptor-lead-for-radarbox--sbs-1e-1626-p.asp. I would say since you are confused just get 10 to 15m westflex 103 with 2 n connectors direct from henry westlake and one of the adaptor leads as well. I know this works fine with our set up.
Andrew
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Sandy - there will be two cables runnning into your box.
One is the USB that connects the box to PC. You can extend this cable considerably (I'm up to 12 metres) and this has no effect on signal strength whatsoever.
The other cable will be your antenna and the golden rule is the shorter the antenna cable the better.
As you do not need to see the box - only the PC screen - the trick is to move the box as near to the aerial as possible by extending the length of USB and reducing the coax antenna.
It will all make sense when you start having a play and then you can come back for more help. :)
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Thanks again for all the advice guys. Bratters, I prob will have to keep RB indoors as I think ultimately I'll be putting Radar Rama antenna outside so can't see weather doing the box any good. Out of curiosity, what length of aerial cable is on the standard antenna that comes with the box?
Sandy
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hello
I think it comes with about 10' of rg174 coax
Andrew
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Thanks for that Andrew, at least I'll be able to try it on shed roof with coax in through window of house. Going to look online tonight and see if I can source all I need. Can get all the connectors here in Shetland, and low loss coax (LMR 400) from marine electronics company but they don't have the RG-174 for the patch lead.
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
The LMR-400 is similar loss to Westflex 103 so good that you can source that locally.
I wouldn't worry about 174 for patch lead, you can use one of the 5mm cables like UR76 or RG58 which I'm sure you will get locally as well. It's just to take the strain off the SMA connector on the back of the Radarbox as the 10.3mm cables can be a bit less flexible.
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Sandy, forgot to say that I don't think that the supplied antenna that comes with Radarbox will be sufficiently weatherproof to be used outside - particularly with our weather !
It does perform remarkably well - I used it in the loft space for a few months with quite good results
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Thanks for that smcm, handy info about the 5mm cable and also the LMR-400, I'll phone the marine electronics place in the morning and see if they have 5mm or one of the other places in town as that will let me work with it at the weekend. I am only trying the supplied antenna on shed roof if it is a nice day (Non starter up here then) Just a case of siting it on for as long as it takes me to see what kind of coverage I can get. This is just so I have some idea as to site of outside aerial, I think it will prob end up on pole on gable of house. Loft space seems like an easy option if I could get longer USB cable.
Sandy
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My external antenna is just about 3 feet above the ridge line of the roof of the house and it gets quite good coverage - not so good out west due to local hills but ok towards you and Norway.
Radarbox produces a polar diagram which builds up over time and shows your coverage as lines radiating out from your location
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Sandy,
I have a DPD aerial and mines is in the loft, I suppose i would get a bit better coverage with it outside but I reckoned the gain would not be worth the additional hassle, I have enough Westflex cable to take it outside but its staying in at this time.
Alan
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Thanks for the polar diagram smcm, are you sited at the red cross on the coast there? You are getting really good coverage and even though you have hills to your west you still seem to be getting a fair range, any idea what distance west you are getting?
Sandy
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Alan
Thanks for that info. It is good to know that you can get good coverage with the aerial in the loft, and having read your post and similar one from smcm I am going to try and source a USB extender & cat 5 cable with RJ45 connectors tomorrow/Fri. If I am lucky enough to get these and I get my box by the weekend I'll be able to try siting aerial in the loft and running cable downstairs to PC.
Sandy
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Hi Sandy
About 50 nautical miles out west but nearer 230nm towards Norway. House is single storey and about 40m asl.
I'm about 250nm west of Norway and have shown location on enclosed diagram
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hello
here is our polar diagram in case you are interested.
Andrew
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Hi Sandy,
I'm quite happy with my Radar Rama antenna. I used Buryflex low loss cable for my antenna feed. I mounted the antenna on top of a flat roof (2 stories up). Antenna is
roughly 36' above ground level.
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smcm thanks for that , and the figures it's a bit of a confidence boost to see the range you are getting. Our house is storey and a half but we are probably about 3-5 metres above sea level with a big hill running e-se beside us but I am thinking that as the traffic from that direction is usually in cruise I should be able to pick them up a piece away. It's going to be really interesting experimenting.
Sandy
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Andrew, thanks for your polar diagram also. You too have really good coverage, and if i get 75% of your coverage I will be delighted. I see you are just catching west side of Shetland and extending quite a piece up. I am impressed with the coverage of these RadarBoxes.
Sandy
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Thanks for the polar diagram & picture of your antenna KSMF, again I would be pleased if I get range in some directions approaching the range you are getting , or the other lads that have posted polar diagrams. Out of curiosity, is your antenna secured to anything? I assume it must be and is it affected much by wind?
Sandy
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Hi Sandy,
I built an H shaped platform using some 4'X6" beams I had on hand. Then bolted the tripod stand to the platform. Due to the weight, it doesn't budge at all. So far the antenna has withstood winds of 80 kph with no damage.
Jim
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Hi Jim
That's a good idea, I never thought about a stand alone mount like that. That may be another avenue to explore. I do have holes high up on gable that I bored a few years ago to mount a mast for a weather station rig. Don't really want to put brackets up there again but I think that will be the best place. Just looked online and found local IT shop providing service to make up leads so will be along them tomorrow first thing in the hope they can make me a lead for a USB extender (providing I can source one locally) and then just need box to arrive for the weekend.
Sandy
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Hi Sandy and all, something to bear in mind, is that if you get made up leads, with N-type plugs already fitted on both ends, you need quite a big hole to shove it through!
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Ordered 10 m of Westflex with N type fittings + patch lead from WH Westlake today, and just received e-mail to say they will be despatched tomorrow, so hopefully this time next week I should have the Radar-Rama antenna in action.
I am going to try it in the attic initially but think that I will have to mount it outside on gable to get it above roof ridge.
I am getting nowhere near the coverage that smcm is getting, I think that is a fantastic range, he has better coverage round Shetland than I do!!
Guess a pre amp may well be the next thing.
Sandy
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Oh forgot to say thanks to CoastGuardJon for warning me about hole size to get N type connectors through, I hope I can disconnect one of the ends in order to get it behind the wall. May not matter if I can find top run plate on external wall in the roof void as I will hopefully be able to bore through it and drop cable down the wall. Lots of sweat and a bit of moaning from the other half coming up I think (sweat from me, moaning from 'er indoors :) )
Sandy
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Sandy,
From experience, while you are drilling a hole make it a big one! Big enough to take the N plug and more room for your next antenna project. Wire wool balls are very mouldable to fill the excess space and stop the wild life!
J.
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Very good Jeremy lol. There's a lot of truth in what you say though, I had brackets on the gable of the house for a pole a few years ago then decided to take them down as no longer required, also had an earth rod and wire up to the bracket and guess what I'll be doing shortly. Deja Vu or what!
Sandy